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Drum programming tips for non-drummers?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by 53Crëw, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. mikko/boogie

    mikko/boogie Tortellini Twister

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    I see that Drumkit From Hell Superior is discontinued. EZdrummer with DFH expansion seems to be the only way to go, I guess. Any major differences between those?
     
  2. STINNETT

    STINNETT Bad / Nationwide

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    Superior was discontinued because Superior 2.0 will be out pretty soon with lots of improvements. I consider Superior to be....well....very superior :lol:, and the sounds are not processed, which is a big plus for me.
    You might want to hold out a bit for S2.0 - just my opinion.
     
  3. Ericlingus

    Ericlingus Prettiest Hair Around

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    yeah i'd wait for 2.0. Ez drummer is really cool though. For songwriting it's awesome. For serious recordings I have to replace the kick and snare with other samples. I think 2.0 will have the drag and drop features that ez drummer does. I wish ez drummer let you have processed or unprocessed samples.
     
  4. mikko/boogie

    mikko/boogie Tortellini Twister

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    Thanks for the info guys. I'll wait it out for sure. I need it to sound like the real deal as much as entirely possible (without a drummer that is).
     
  5. broken81

    broken81 Used by Protools

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    Hey if anyone has dfh superior and some free time. Please program a bunch of fills that you know for me that would be great. I'm trying to learn more fills and stuff. I know quite a few already but I'm always trying to learn more and feel like I'm kinda stuck repeating the same fills. Or if anyone has some sweet songs they programed on drums and don't mind sharing them. Please pm me. :worship:

    I'm just using for my own learning and not for a song or any bands......
     
  6. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    or better yet, would anyone(cough*metalhead28*cough) be willing to share a few MIDI files of stuff they've programmed?

    of course i'm not trying to steal anyone's music here, but i would love to visualize some good programming in my drum editor, especially the velocities on tom fills, snare rolls, and things of that nature

    shit, even a couple screenshots would be beyond awesome
     
  7. broken81

    broken81 Used by Protools

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    Yea i was kinda hoping metalhead28 would be kind. :saint:

    But yea anyone willing to share midi files or screen shots would rock!
     
  8. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    it's funny this thread is hovering near the top of here right now...

    i have a sort of sludge/doom track i'm programming drums for right now, and i just can't get certain parts of it to sound right. i had a buddy of mine take a crack at playing some live drums to it, but he didn't bother to learn the song all that well and performed pretty terribly

    i've gotten decent at programming for straight-up, no-dynamics metal shit, but getting something that works for this song is proving to be a huge PITA
     
  9. Zack Uidl

    Zack Uidl Member

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  10. MdiMonk

    MdiMonk MidiMonk

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    Zack,

    thanks for that link \m/

    Like others have said listen in your mind as your programming-visualize the hits-.Another, way to get dirty is get a trigger finger and just tap beats out while listening to your fave tunes.What I did was hang out with a jazz drummer that wanted to learn midi,back in 96, we traded tips/tricks.I also produce Industrial/hip hop as well to keep diverse.
     
  11. STINNETT

    STINNETT Bad / Nationwide

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    I may upload some MIDI samples when I get a chance.

    I can give you some tips on this stuff though.

    Snares:
    Try doing ghost notes with a velocity of around 20. Try doing rolls with a velocity range from around 55-80, with an occasional spike into the 80's or 90's. Save the harder hits for accents and place them where they make sense rhythmically. Something that really helped me with fast snare rolls - When you drag the stick across the drum you get more than one consecutive hit with each hand, I simulate that by doing 2 or 3 hits per hand instead of alternating strict L/R/L/R for really fast rolls. Velocities are in the 20-40 range for those multiple hits.
    I use the snare FX or rimshot quite a bit. I never, ever, use the snare "roll" sample.
    Oh yeah, and for blast beats I rarely get the snare velocity above 65 or so.

    Toms:
    I use similar velocities for tom rolls that I do for snares. I usually favor one hand, meaning the velocities are a bit higher for one hand some of the time. Individual hits for accents are usually in the 90-110 range. Keep in mind the physical aspect, you can't fly from one side of the kit to the other with 32nd notes and maintain a very heavy hand. Some of those fast fills are going to be really low velocities. Don't do the same 4 hits per drum descending roll every freaking time. Mix it up! That's where watching creative drummers comes in.

    I look at things as if anything over 110-115 is just murdering the drum and I never use that unless I want it to sound that way.

    Think about working with a real drum recording, you have to compress the snare hard to get a high impact sound - you should be doing the same thing with programmed drums. Lower velocities, processed the same way you would process a real drum track is what sounds best. (in my opinion)

    As far as creating fills, if you can't visualize it or hear something interesting in your head - hell just start clicking in hits in odd patterns until something sounds cool. Sometimes that is how I create fills - and then I go back and try to decide if they are playable. :p
     
  12. Jackal_Strain

    Jackal_Strain Sigurd Løberg

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    I also learned a lot about programming drums myself from watching the midi files that came with EZ Drummer. Those files are played by real drummers , and they really opened my eyes to some of the things I've done wrong all the time.
     
  13. broken81

    broken81 Used by Protools

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    Thanks Metalhead28 great info....

    Yea Please post some samples though when you get a chance.
     
  14. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    yea, see, according to the info you posted, i have pretty much all of my velocities set too high

    but it seems that with ezdrummer, the hits just completely disappear below a certain level, especially with the toms
     
  15. Zack Uidl

    Zack Uidl Member

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    One other thing that I do a lot with the parts that I write is have a drummer review them. I have a bad habit of writing parts for drummers with three arms. :)

    But, I would definitely recommend getting a drummer friend or someone you work with to review them when learning how to write and think like a drummer, really helps.
     
  16. broken81

    broken81 Used by Protools

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    yea i need to mess with velocity more on the toms and snare. Ive tried a few times and it just sounded like a sloppy ass drummer. I Usually just have everything at 120 or whatever the stock is and just do left and right hand in fills.

    Metalhead28 please don't meke me beg. :lol:
     
  17. Exocaster

    Exocaster Nozzle

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    As a pretty experienced drum programmer, I'll say Metalhead28's info on velocities is spot on. There's really nothing there I disagree with. That stuff is absolutely critical. Get the velocities making sense, groove quantize and randomize after you've programmed your beats (even good drummers playing to a click won't be absolutely on the click every time, and a good drummer playing to a click can still play behind the beat or push the beat forward depending on the feel needed for that particular section) and, if you want to go all out, slow down or speed up by a few BPM if it's appropriate for that part of the song. People do that with the click in the studio fairly regularly.

    Oh, and watch out for overly loud or quiet samples. Sometimes you'll have to compensate with velocities that are much higher or lower than the other samples to keep things from getting lost or dominating the mix. I've had this happen running multiple instances of EZDrummer using the stock rides and the DKFH chinas.
     
  18. broken81

    broken81 Used by Protools

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    Can you post some midi file samples?
     
  19. STINNETT

    STINNETT Bad / Nationwide

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    Okay, so rather than posting something old I just sat down for a bit a programmed a short little drum solo type of thing. I spent about an hour on it this morning.

    Here's an MP3:

    Metalhead's Drum Solo

    And here's a link to download the MIDI file and also the .dfh file so that you can use the same sounds.

    http://download.yousendit.com/646C78B003AB1D7C


    Hope it helps!
     
  20. JBroll

    JBroll I MIX WITH PHYSICS!!!!

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    NO QUANTIZATION.

    Having uneven velocities and timing is key. I've sent a sample or two around to people who have then told me that 'the drums sound good, but the drummer needs to tighten up a little'...

    Jeff
     

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