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Dull guitars rock

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Ermz, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

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    I assume you guys are going for very shallow inclines on the filters if you're going as low as 7k? Surely anything too steep is going to be just nasty?
     
  2. if6was9

    if6was9 Ireland

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    I like quite bright guitars, last few projects I did I actually used a high shelf boost around 11-12k. Not massive and it added a bit of fizz but I preferred it in the context of the mixes so I went for it. Happiest I've ever been with guitars mix-wise so I guess everyones different!
     
  3. TheWinterSnow

    TheWinterSnow Den Mørke Natt

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    haha so I was off a little bit. Anyway, it still proves my point though, as in my experience with my amp, there is no fizz ever remotely in or near 6K, its all 8K+, so it really changes from amp to amp and again depending on the mix, this will change how much you will control it.

    As you said in a later post, some of that fizz is more of a sizzle if used right, it should be attenuated but be there just enough to add some brightness for clarity, but not loud enough so that the listener goes, "hey thats fizzy".

    It really comes down to the mix. Usually I like darker guitars, however in Devin Townsend's "Addicted" The guitar have no bass, little to no low mids and are absolute fizz city, but in the mix you can never tell, as it really works for THAT mix. Same goes for Mercenary's "Architect of Lies", Friedman technique, very scratchy scooped mids, almost nothing but highs.
     
  4. Dollarosa

    Dollarosa Member

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    Kind of funny how this thread was put up after I was mucking around with some guitars on a new song I was mixing. I was referencing the new "Electric Horse" (mixed by forrester savell) with my mix and really wanted the guitars to have a similar tone. Everything I did seemed to cluter everything else, by adding a low pass to about 9k, the mixed finally opened up and everything seemed to come into place. A dip in the mids with a high pass and some saturation was all that was needed after that.

    Thanks guys:)
     
  5. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    Fuck being subtle.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Charles J

    Charles J New Metal Member

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    lmfao. awesome
     
  7. iHate

    iHate Member

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    ^I bet that sounds really good.
     
  8. kramer1309

    kramer1309 Member

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    ^ where's the low pass!! :D
     
  9. reg3n

    reg3n Señor Miembro

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    i found my fav mixes lack a lot of highs in guitars, but yeah i was a chicken and after Ola's awesome video i started to think on my tone differently too, and it's gotten better yep. I don't mind the tiny details of processing each could make, i guess it's just a matter of lowering that range, and making stuff fit. Cool thread.
     
  10. wutzington

    wutzington massive member

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    Why don't all of you guys just try out some ribbon mics? They do the lopass thing "automatically" and sound much more natural than sm57s and the like.
     
  11. jangoux

    jangoux Member

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    We've got a Royer at the studio I work on, and for clean and low gain stuff, it rocks. But for hi-gain, it is meh...

    Btw, I am happy this thread was started. Like Nate, I was always affraid to go further than 12k, but I've always felt 12k was not enough but never tried lower because i thought something else was wrong on my mixes. And to add to the fact, I get so few rock/metal projects that is really hard to practice. Anyway, Like Ermin, I usually low passed at 12k, but ended up adding some very narrow cuts at the extreme hi end to smooth out things a little.

    Btw, It is funny how this extreme hi end can screw things up really bad, making the guitars sound thin/overgained. A few years ago, before i started to work to bein an AE, my band travelled to the biggest city on the country to record our first full lenght. I listened to a few great releases of theirs, so I trusted 'em 100%. When the moment to track guitars came, I found a tone I liked and suddenly the AE came and said with confidence 'PRESENCE ON 10, ALWAYS!'. I was like 'wtf', but hell, he recorded dozens of nice records in there, so I thought that was fine. At the end, everything sucked, had no body at all, and was fizz city. At this moment I figured out this extreme hi end was the one area that could screw your tone very easily.
     
  12. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

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    I used to HP my guitars at 8khz, but then things were too dull. A week or two later, I got better at micing amps, and also switched to HP at 12khz again. It really depends on the amp and mix in question.

    I definitely need to think about this some more. Narrowing any instrument in the mixes bandwith in most cases is good news. Cheers on the useful comments.
     
  13. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    because they take too much room sound?
     
  14. Nebulous

    Nebulous Daniel

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    When going from a 12-10kHz filter to a 7-9kHz filter mindset, do you guys who have been doign this for a while compensate by tracking brighter or with more mids?
     
  15. Harry Hughes

    Harry Hughes   ‬‬

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    One thing you should keep in mind the high pass filtering is about getting rid of the junk, not to really darken the tone as such.
    If you track the guitars fairly dark (which I prefer to do and of course you can only track it so dark before it's just.....well, too dark lol), then boost the upper mids, setting the low pass filter to 7 and then removing the low pass filter wont make much of a difference to the real brightness of the tone, because the brightness and sizzle (the guitar's "air"), the bulk of the brightness as I mentioned on the first page, seems to lie within 5.5-7KHz. You really gotta boost that region for the real brightness to come in.

    So when you take the 7KHz LP filtering off, the tone wont get any brighter, but rather just more harsh with more tonal crap characteristics to it.
    Of course, that is still technically being "brighter" but by brighter I mean in a way that's pleasing to the ear and beneficial to the guitar tone and mix, while that 7KHz and upwards brightness is largely just a lot of crap.

    The same as how if you tracked the guitar with way too much upper mids, putting on 7KHz LP filtering isn't going to help much. Yes, it will a lot of the junk beyond that, but ultimately you're still left with that excessive and nasty chunk of upper mids (which I've found from personal experience is harder to remove from an overly bright tone than it is to add upper mids to a fairly dark tone).
     
  16. wutzington

    wutzington massive member

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    They only do that, if you want them to.
    You can always put a reflexion filter behind or get one without figure 8.
    I love my T.Bone RB500 for more juice in my guitar tones. Of course, you still have to blend it with a md421 or something for Deathmetal stuff, but only because Sneap doesn't like the 121 you shouldn't totally write off ribbons in general.

    Another trick is to take 2 Cabs facing each other and put a ribbon with figure 8 between the cabs. Just plug one cab in. Very dry sound for a ribbon. You can of course plug the other one in, if you like fucked up, phased sounds. (Can be nice for overdubs or cutting leads).

    cheers,
    Mario
     
  17. Nebulous

    Nebulous Daniel

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    It's interesting you say that Harry. I find that when I record at home, or my own playing any where I seem to stil with 12kHz filtering because any lower than that it starts to really make the tone too dull.
    I will have to experiment with this when I have the time.
     
  18. Mikaël-ange

    Mikaël-ange Member

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    And I have to say this: recto fizz are really obvious with v30;)
     
  19. Harry Hughes

    Harry Hughes   ‬‬

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    You probably have too steep of a filter going on, because it definitely should not start to suddenly go really dull below 12KHz.
    Definitely try boosting in the 4.5-6KHz region to get some good brightness going.
    It's tricky though, because it's quite easy to tread very quickly into harsh sounding territory when doing that.
    Always pays to just reference against stuff that has very controlled upper mids in the guitars.
    As far as Sneap stuff goes, I've found The End of Heartache to be good for that.
    Just listening to the intro of the title track, you can really hear those upper mids giving the guitars plenty of air, and good presence in the mix, yet it's never ever harsh (although the somewhat overbearing lower mids are perhaps not the best bet for reference lower mid levels though :lol:)
     
  20. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    Yeah, EoH is a great guitar reference. Just have to mind those low-mids impacting on mix clarity, as stated.

    TWoAF is also a good reference, as is Nickelback's 'All the Right Reasons' (has mixed guitar tones, so you can reference the one you want). Disturbed's 'Ten Thousand Fists' isn't bad, and 'Clayman' can be cool too.

    Anything mixed by Randy, it's kinda hard to go wrong.

    Probably a good example of a guitar tone that's 'bright' and 'edgy' in the correct areas (ie. still sounds like a recto but without the filthy fizz):

     
    #60 Ermz, Aug 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015

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