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Editing drums in logic 9 with flex time

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by setyouranchor, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Ok, I'm trying to get to grips with drum editing and processing in logic. I've watched tutorials and read different forums but flex time is confusing me :/

    Here is the walk through I have been following:


    "1. Throw all of the drum tracks into a group and modify the group settings to ensure Phase-Locked editing is turned on

    2. Uncheck the 'Q' buttons in the tracks headers for everything but the key tracks (I typically only use the Kick Inside and the Snare Top tracks for this).

    3. Double-click on one of the key track regions to open the sample editor. Under the audio menu in the sample editor, there's an option called 'Detect Transients'. When you select it, it will take a few seconds to analyze the track for transients.

    4. More often than not, it will detect WAY more transients than you need. In the Sample Editor, there are '+' and '-' signs. Start clicking on the '-' sign to reduce the threshhold for transient detection (I usually have to click this a lot btw) and you'll start seeing a lot of the unnecessary transients disappear. Eventually you'll get to a point where the transient markers align to when the hits of the instrument are actually occuring.

    5. Repeat step 3 and 4 for the other key tracks.

    6. Now that you've chosen where you want your transients to be, go to the inspector of one of your key tracks (any of the ones that have the 'Q' button still selected) and turn the Flex Mode option to 'Slicing.' This will spend a few seconds creating transient markers for ALL of the drum tracks based on the transient markers you created in steps 3-5.

    7. When its done, go to the View menu in the Arrange window and turn Flex View on. You should now see all of the transients markers across all tracks.

    8. On one of your key tracks, expand the Advanced Quantization parameters section in Inspector area. Set the Q-Range to a value around 1/32nd.

    9. On the same track, turn on Quantize to the level you want. I usually use 1/8th notes for this setting since its a good base point to start with. There will always be manual edits that need to be made, but I find this does most of the work.

    10. Listen through the track and correct/fix any section that doesn't sound right."


    However, whilst editing my drums and using the flex tool, whenever I move say a kick drum or a snare, it will effect all the other tracks e.g. toms, cymbals etc.

    How do I get around this? Should I group the drums seperately? E.g Kicks, Snares, Toms, OHs then edit each part?

    I did watch a tutorial on using the marquee tool and using tab to transient, however, in logic 9 after you make a cut, it will deselect the marquee :/ AND i'd rather get to grips with moving the audio with flex time rather than cutting!

    PLEASE HELP LOGIC GURUS :(
     
  2. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    When you move a hit all the tracks are supposed to move, that's what phase locked audio is. If you edit the tracks one by one you will end up with all sorts of strange flams and phase issues.

    I've found that the only way I can use slicing mode is if I manually delete ALL transient markers and place flex markers by hand. Otherwise flex totally fucks up my drum tracks. It works perfectly now though, just like slip editing.
     
  3. timislegend

    timislegend Member

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    *yes

    you must create a "flex marker" in order to move individual transients.
     
  4. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    i'd cut the drum tracks into smaller regions if you are going to use "auto" mode for quantizing, otherwise you may move stuff you dont want to.

    break it down into small sections in case you need to redo anything, it will save you time in the long run.

    I do everything by hand, as I want my drum hits to be a couple of ms behind the grid, and also means i can make sure there are no mistakes/bad edits.

    all tracks should be edited together - i guess its doing something more though, as i cant understand the problem?
     
  5. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    and i wouldnt use the marquee method in logic 9 - that was the best way to do it prior to v9, but now its a lot slower (and worse IMO) way of doing it.

    to get it to cut without deselecting the marquee, you need to use keyboard shortcuts (one to enable/disable grouping, one to move to next transient, and one to cut at the marquee regions start/end).
     
  6. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Yeh, I realised jsut after I posted that if I did each track individually there would be some weird phase issues.

    How would I create flex markers? Would I still need to open the sample editor and select the transients?
     
  7. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    flex markers are when you click in a region in flex mode (when you can drag markers around).
     
  8. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    So you would create smaller regions for the drums then flex mode (slicing) and move each hit by hand?

    God flex mode is such a confusing thing to me!

    And as far as the marquee tool, I totally agree. The concept of flex mode seems so much easier, its jsut getting my head around it. When I use the tab to transient tool in L9, it seems so slow. Could just be my RAM though
     
  9. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    yeah, the marquee you need a shit ton of ram. best to consolidate when stuff is done, and clear the bin.

    yeah, split it into smaller sections - generally helps keep things a bit snappier too (guessing a ram thing). if you are doing things with quantize (i.e. not by hand), then its definitely better to split into smaller sections.

    when I'm doing it, ill split it into like verse/chorus/bridge etc and edit by hand. just drag the transient/flex markers where you want them.

    make sure you are careful with cymbals, esp if they are being hit slightly before the drums, you'll want to drag the start of the cymbal hit back (later in time), so its closer to the drum hit otherwise you'll get some nasty cymbal flamming.
     
  10. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    if i werent so fucking busy id do you a vid, theres enough questions that come up on this (and when you know what to do, its really very simple).
     
  11. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Ok thanks dude :) I'll try it out. When you drag the transient/flex markers, is there anything you have to do prior to this to find the transients? Like the sample editor window and use "Detect Transients" or is it simply setting up flex time to slicing and moving each part?

    Oh and would you still group all the drums and use Q button? Sorry for all the questions

    I'm messing with some raw drum tracks someone posted on the forum and either the drummer did not play to a click or theyre pretty damn sloppy.

    Also, are you the Ed from Miltion Keynes who re-amped/mixed my mates band? Day Will Come?
     
  12. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    yeah thats me.....them DI's always come out a little weird, very bassy....no idea why haha.

    the detect transients is only really important if you are doing it automatically to the grid (1/16, 1/8, etc). if you are doing it by hand it doesnt really matter, but its a bit easier on the eye if you clean it up a little. probably best just using the + and - (dont need to worry about using the pencil and eraser or anything).

    use q on snare and kick.

    tbh if the section is simple and tight enough then ill use auto mode, but most of the time ill do it by hand as you can put things exactly where they need to be.

    if its not to the click, then DEF do it by hand.
     
  13. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    I've jsut noticed your other post about the video. Don't worry about it dude, you've been a massive help anyway. A video would be easier as there really isnt too much on drum editing in Logic 9 right now, but I totally understand your busy!

    Right, let me try get this right haha

    Group all drums (dont worry too much about phase locking) > Keep q on snare and kick > Dectect these transients in sample editor so its a little easier> Enable slicing > View flex mode > Move each hit for each drum by hand?

    Hope I'm on the right track. Thanks so much for the help so far!
     
  14. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    definitely keep phase locked audio ON, thats VERY important! you have to make sure that all tracks are being edited at the same time (otherwise the hits will be all over the place).

    otherwise yeah, thats how i do it.
     
  15. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Ah I see, but thats the problem I was a having in the first place. I'd move say my snare and there would be a weird phase/glitchy thing.

    Like if I moved a snare that was slightly behind, but the cymbal was correct, it would move both and then the cymbal would be too early?
     
  16. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    move the cymbal?

    tbh it depends on what the scenario is, its hard to tell through text. but if you dont move the OH tracks too, then you'll have the snare hits coming in at different times.
     
  17. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Good point. God I seem so stupid haha

    Ill give it another whirl! Thanks a lot though dude :) Glad some people on here are so helpful.

    Let us know if you do ever get round to making that video though. So much easier than text :p
     
  18. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    ....must be your lucky day haha.

    ill stop listening to shitty pop music at this silly hour and do a quick vid. give a little while....
     
  19. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Really?! Thats awesome dude :D Thank you SO much!

    Easier to dropbox or youtube it?
     
  20. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    ok done a quick video (no sound as i cant get it to work with jing).

    showing doing it by hand and automode for a couple of bars each. you get the idea. just need a way of converting .swf to something else?
     

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