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Effects and Bus Routing?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Studdy, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    How are most of you laying out your routing when it comes to you "final" mix busses. I generally have a master (untouched) fed by my main mixbus which is fed by all vox, all music, drums etc. Anyways to my point where does your reverb, delays etc end up? Do you just put vocal delays through all vox, guitar delays through all music etc? or do you put your effects on an all fx bus? Example putting the reverb though the bus processing of the vocal would effect the reverbs and delays as well and vice versa just wonder where most of your effects final resting place is before the master fader.

    Just curious to workflow. Cheers!
     
  2. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    99% of my wet FX are on fx busses - I usually set these up straight away as I set up my busses and tweak as I go,and generally have 5-8 tracks with a couple delay, reverb, delay+reverb, etc options depending on the type of song/mix that's going on.

    The only time I'll do otherwise is if I have a one-off part or track in the song that just needs some extra effect that I don't have an FX bus for (vocal fx, slapbacks, a big background part, whatever).
     
  3. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    Folders in Reaper for me. Though I do need to start experimenting more with routing.
     
  4. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    Me too Jeff, but where does your specific FX bus get sent to? Example if you have a vocal track being sent to a delay aux/bus. Does the delay get sent to the All Vocal Bus along with the vocal track before hitting the master fader? Hope this makes sense, or maybe i do more routing than needed.
     
  5. He's Dead, Jim

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    I might be an idiot, but I don't. Delays/verb/etc seem like the sorts of things to me that don't really benefit from the saturation and compression that buses are typically used for. I prefer to get them to sound exactly the way I want with the correct space in the mix and never touch them again.
     
  6. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    Ahh i get what you mean. FX busses go out to the 2bus, nothing special there. I route individual vocal groups (main scream and main clean vox will have separate fx sends, bgrnd vox separate sends, lead gtrs vs clean gtrs get different sends, snare vs toms, etc).
     
  7. Jordon

    Jordon Member

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    This is how I go about setting up my mix sessions, maybe there's some helpful info in there. As far as any other effects that would be used, for example a delay on a lead guitar, would be done on the track itself.

     
    #7 Jordon, Jan 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  8. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    So you are sending your vocal effects through your ALL Vocals bus. So all of your vocal bus compression, saturation etc affects the delays and reverbs?
     
    #8 Studdy, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  9. C_F_H_13

    C_F_H_13 Protools Guru

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    mine is probably overly complicated, but I end up printing a lot of stems and alt mixes...

    basic structure is this order, each feeding the previous.

    Stereo buss

    all fx/ all music / all vocals

    drums / loops&fx / bass / guitars / keys&synths / vocals / FX

    then after that it's all track dependent, but there could be more groups feeding these (parallel drums, live versus synth bass, rhythm guitars/lead guitars)

    As far as fx goes, I find that I mostly just feed them straight into their own group and don't hit any kind of processing or grouping. I think the only exception to this is sometimes I feed the verbs for drums into the drum group for more glue.

    Also, I follow this naming scheme...or a slight variation of it...I find it's the most organized one out there.

    http://www.thelikelystory.com/mix-session-layout-and-suggested-naming-conventions/
     
  10. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    this is also exactly what I do. Vocal (Sometimes Drum) Aux delays, verbs etc. are sent to a final All FX bus then out to 2bus/print/master. Usually tracks like guitar and such will get the fx inserted directly on the channel.

    Edit: This now brings up another interest topic. Global All FX processing. Anyone got any dirty secrets out there? Havent thought about it much because i usually have each fx bus tailored to sound the way i want. But globally processing all the fx could perhaps yield some interesting results (light gluing, defining space etc.) . hmmmm back to the lab! lol
     
  11. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    Mine is :


    MASTER TRACK
    2BUS
    DRUMS/BASS/eGTR/acouGTR/VOX/SYNTH/OTHER/ORCHESTRAL (which makes 8 actual busses)

    FX goes into "Other" and the 2BUS is where the mixing master chain occurs. The actual mastering chain (linear phase EQ, multi band comp, stereo tools etc) goes on "Mastering".

    This way I have control over the mastering stage with a single "disable fx" switch, where I can remove the mastering chain but still keep the 2BUS compressor, saturations etc.

    When FX deserve to be glued to the original track they stay in the bus, otherwise they go in "other" where no processing is ever applied since it's a mix of everything that is not "core".

    However I might change mind because for the purpose of Stems maybe I could add an FX bus instead of something else. I'm trying to limit myself to 8 buses to make it a perfect count for control surfaces.
     
  12. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    I personnally :

    - instrument color code the tracks, I have them set up like guitar pro + personal colors (pink for vocals, brown for acoustic instruments, grey for anything that is just info, or not technical for example in Reaper an item can have text inside as opposed to audio). Or for example the tempo track, the click track, the 2BUS track feeding the master track, etc.

    - the main buses are in capitals like DRUMS and inside the drums kick snare etc will be noted Ki Ko Stop Sbot HH T1 T2 T3 OH R
    Same for guitars, the main bus will be GTR but the lower tracks will be Gtr LL Gtr L Gtr C Gtr R Gtr RR Solo1 Solo2
    I Might steal the idea of using <DRUMS> as the main BUS, and "GTR" for a lower level bus for example there would be
    <GTR>
    - ELEC
    -- Rythm L / Rythm L
    - ACOU
    -- AcouL Acou R

    - in the mixer in reaper, the buses have a bigger track layout than the normal tracks. Makes them immediately identifiable. I also have icons set up, so the combination of color + logo + layout makes it easy to identify a track
    The tracks that will have minimal or zero processing will have the "tracking" layout which is very narrow, allowing for more tracks displayed.
    Examples :
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/881054/%40a%20supprimer/in%202016/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202015-01-29%2002.11.46.jpg
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/881054/%40a%20supprimer/in%202016/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202015-01-29%2002.12.02.jpg
     
  13. Jordon

    Jordon Member

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    The drum sub, bass sub, guitar sub, etc, etc, are there strictly for overall control of the mix, for doing broad moves without having to automate everything. Similar to a VCA fader in ProTools HD. I can also do some processing, but I usually don't. All processing is done either on individual audio tracks or its done on the auxes earlier in the chain (for example, on the GTRL and GTRR auxes, I would do most of my EQ on the rhythm tracks). Sometimes, I'll send all effects like delays and reverbs to another subgroup before it hits the 2BUSS, but for most mixes, I don't find it necessary.

    I hope that clears it up a bit.
     
  14. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    You must have more than one vocal track, If this is the case do you have more than one vocal bus? Where are you going group vocal processing if not on all vox bus?
     
  15. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    If on Reaper you can group track characteristics, such as the post fx volume fader, together, or slave some to master tracks.

    A cool use : group vocals together (regardless of bus). Background vocals as slave, main vocals as master. Now if you move the main vocals up the back vocals follow. But if yiu touché the back vocals the main vocals are untouched. It's handy to "trim" to feed the bus at a good level without the hassle of dealing with countless faders, and still you can individually touch the background vocals because you usually do it in relation to the main vocals. Any grouped parameter can be tweaked shortcuting by holding shift.

    The interest for me is : it avoids using folder inside folder inside folder. For example GTR L and GTR R > e-GTR > GTR which quickly becomes cluttered and doubles the track count just to link two tracks together. I'd rather do it with grouping and more or less never have more than 1 folder per group of instruments which simply is the BUS. Maybe create a second level of folders if there is really many guitar tracks or something like that.

    Then only, the final touch in the mix can be done at the bus stage. Later if you feel like you had to increase or decrease the bus fader a lot and would like it to stay around the zero mark for readability or automation convenience (to automate around zero) just go back to the children tracks and move one of the faders. Handy for clarity and proper gain staging.

    I only recently started using this and it's so handy !
     
  16. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    big fan of this thread, particularly jordon's video and chris's link.

    organisation is everything. working in a way that simplifies everything is really important too.
     
  17. indecizo

    indecizo Member

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  18. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    So you just put fx through the same bus as the vocal/instrument? So if you apply compression to the vocal bus you are affecting the delays and verbs as well?
     
  19. Jordon

    Jordon Member

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    Think of it like this:

    lead vocal 1 (separate audio track)
    lead vocal mult 1 (separate audio track)
    send both to a vocal bus ------> Lead Vocal 1 Aux
    These have post-fader sends to verb and delays.

    lead vocal 2 (separate audio track)
    lead vocal mult 2 (separate audio track)
    send both to a vocal bus ------> Lead Vocal 2 Aux
    These have post-fader sends to verb and delays.

    Same for backing vocal groups

    Lead Vocal 1 Aux
    Lead Vocal 2 Aux
    Backing Vocal Aux
    Vocal Verb Aux Return
    Vocal Delay Aux Return
    send all of these to a main vocal bus ------> Vocal Sub (another aux track)

    Leaving you individual control over every element of the vocal mix, along with being able to do broad mix moves without relying solely on grouping tracks.
     
  20. indecizo

    indecizo Member

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    Yeah, I apply compression and EQ before the fx in the same channel. I'm not a fan of big "wet" tracks so I just adjust the mix knob on the effect very lightly until I can perceive a little sense of space in the mix and call it a day; if I need more effect let's say in a part where a snare hit plays when no other instrument is playing, I just copy-paste the track and effects nto a new channel and change the settings on the verb so it has more decay for that specific part of the song. That sounds simple but it's quick as shit and works well. I end up with a few copy pastes from different instruments or vocals each song. I rarely use a fx bus to automate a particular instrument's effect.
     

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