***** Opethian666 has requested that his thread be updated with a new line of questioning. His new post now opens the thread, his original retained below it. The thread's poll is in conjunction with his new post, which can also be found on page 8 (Justin S.)***** Do you believe in free will, defined as: Free will: the belief that 2 persons, with the exact same body structure (everything, thus the same genes, the same injuries, the same memory, etc...), and receiving the exact same environmental stimuli (thus being in the exact same place and receiving the exact same sensory input) can perform 2 different actions. Thus that they have a real "choice". Then, if you want to assert that free will as defined here exists, and can be explained by natural phenomena, you have to be able to point out a phenomenon which is only applicable to humans, and other animals/organisms which you think are capable of "free will actions". This to prevent us from debating about a "free will" which is also applicable to rocks and rivers. For example if you tried to use the Heisenberg uncertainty principle to explain free will, It wouldn't be will, since will is only a meaningful concept when applied to living organisms, and it wouldn't be free, it would be random. A) Yes I believe in free will, because I believe in the supernatural, thus for example a "soul" allowing for free will, regardless of physical laws. B) Yes I believe in free will, but I do not believe in the supernatural. (please explain why, since so far no one has been able to explain this, according to me, fallacious position) C) No I don't believe in free will, but I do believe in the supernatural. D) No I don't believe in free will, and I don't believe in the supernatural. E) Other (explain). Please explain your position and reasons behind it. My position is D), which of course you could have guessed. -------------- (Ed:Original post)- Does anyone here believe in free will, defined as the ability of a human (or other organisms) to make different decisions under circumstances with the same body structure (including memory stored in synapses, trauma etc...) and the same environmental information being perceived through the senses? If you do, what is your explanation for this? Do you believe in a soul, some kind of spiritual entity that can somehow alter the physical reality (which is ridiculous imo), because frankly I can't see how someone who does not believe in the supernatural can believe in free will. Biochemistry + physics + biology clearly demonstrate that we are all just biochemical machines that are determined (if we leave out the Heisenberg uncertainty, since it has no bearing on the scale of the "free will decisions" we're talking about).