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Free will?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Opethian666, Jul 22, 2006.

?

Do you believe in free will?

  1. Yes, I believe in free will, and in the supernatural

    18.2%
  2. Yes, I believe in free will, but not in the supernatural

    22.7%
  3. No, I don't believe in free will, but I do believe in the supernatural

    4.5%
  4. No, I don't believe in free will, and I don't believe in the supernatural

    36.4%
  5. Other

    18.2%
  1. Opethian666

    Opethian666 Booze influenced

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    Before we will be able to do that, we still have much research to do in how exactly our consciousness works. We have come a long way and already know much about the functioning of our bodies, but there are still many areas to explore. And even if we almost completely understand the complex processes behind our consciousness, we will have to find a way to design an analog system using completely different materials as the ones we are made of. I think this is something for the far, far future.

    Something quite interesting I found in the wikipedia page for free will:

     
  2. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

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    i've always been turned on to mysticism, have had a few profound mystical experiences myself, and have been practicing meditation for the past few months.

    a couple of nights ago, i reached new ground in my practices, and was having a blissful day. i felt a new connection to my surroundings. i was spacing out, listening to some birds, and a friend asked me a question. in a tree nearby, a snapping stick immediately responded. honestly...i was dumbfounded. i heard clearly what my friend asked me, and I had a response ready...but not only did i find it pointless to respond, (because the stick already had) but i didn't know whether i should respond to the question, or the stick.

    what did this tell me about free will? the snapping stick had as much effect on me as did my friend's question. the two stimuli were in the same league, the same mode. the stick's snapping was to me, at that time, equally as important in the response to my friend's question as was his question.

    granted, that was the only experience i have ever had of that kind. maybe it was....i dunno...but, it was a very real feeling, and i can remember it vividly.

    what does my experience tell me about free will? the fact that there is a coke bottle next to me, and will be for the remainder of my stint on the computer, bares equal importance on what i am saying right now, as does the meaning of what i am saying, and the fact that i am saying it. now, how much say does it have in the ending of this sentence, and my going to bed?
     
  3. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

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    if you drink that caffeinated beverage, quite a lot :lol:
     
  4. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

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    i didn't drink it, so we will never know.
     
  5. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    So, there are people here who actually believe this? Forgive me for not having read the first 8 pages of the thread, but if there have been any major arguments made in favor of free will thus far, I'd really like to see them. I want to see someone who believes in free will actually defend this position.
     
  6. Έρεβος

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    Knowledge of free will requires omniscience; we can only guess, and use half-reason to make educated guesses. But truly, we come no closer to the real answer no matter how much we know. We simply can't know if there is free will or not, as such a thing is beyond the grasping of a finite mind, a human mind. I put "Other."
     
  7. images and words

    images and words New Metal Member

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    Life is all about choices. Some you cant control...Some you can control, which is free will.
     
  8. Έρεβος

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    Free will is the concept that such choices are not predetermined by physical arrangement of particles, energy, etc. So no.
     
  9. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

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    or maybe you just have the illusion of control...


    Reminds me of Alan Watts when he proposed "what you took to be the thinker of thoughts was just one of the thoughts." [​IMG]
     
  10. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    That's freedom. Not the same as free will.

    That's the biggest problem with a discussion like this. So few people actually understand the concept of free will. A good analogy between freedom and free will is "the ability to do what you desire" versus "the ability to modify your desires at will". Of course, your will to change... your will... still has to come from somewhere.

    I have a hard time even imagining just how free will would work. When is someone ever free from all desires, inclinations, or motivations?

    Eh, I'm rambling. My main objective right now was just to point out the misconception of freedom as equivalent to free will. I'll form more coherent thoughts on the rest of this sometime when I'm not busy with homework.
     
  11. kmik

    kmik Member

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    I havn't read the whole thread, but I think it's really simple. Everything that happens is either determined by past events or is completely arbitary (God might and might not throw dice). Suppose someone does something. If that something wasn't inevitable and determined by the past (the laws of physics, your DNA, the weather) , and we don't have free will, or it was arbitary, and then we also don't have free will. It's that simple.
     

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