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Getting your loudness?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Ice Man, Jan 21, 2007.

  1. Slate

    Slate Member

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    My advice is to bring up the mix via a clipper. Don't get scared by the word, clipping, when done properly, is fairly inaudible. What it does, is instead of lower the peaks, it just chops them a bit. Then you can use an extra db or two of limiting. This is what is done in major mastering houses, but by clipping very expensive A/D converters. What you can use in the plugin world, is called the GClip. Find it at http://www.gvst.co.uk/gclip.htm

    You'll notice by using this technique of clipping plus limiting, your drums will stay much more intact and punchy.
     
  2. everybody's x

    everybody's x My name is Damage

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    Bang! whats up buddy?

    listen to this dude, his mixes fucking rule
     
  3. Zombietakeover

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    so are those drum samples you are selling for 209 bucks pretty badass?
    i heard the clips and they are pretty good.....im just wondering if its really that easy
     
  4. stringy_

    stringy_ Member

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    That's a pretty cool plug-in for being freeware. I'm getting a nice boost in the RMS by shaving off the peaks a bit.

    It's pretty easy to get clipping though. Imagine that, clipping from a clipper. Lol!

    I've always been under the assumption that you NEVER, under any circumstances clip in digital equipment. Apparently these A/Ds are a different story?
     
  5. JBroll

    JBroll I MIX WITH PHYSICS!!!!

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    What's important is how they handle clipping - most A/Ds are not designed to be clipped. Hell, most things aren't designed to be clipped - that's why you don't plug in guitar amps to hi-fi stereo equipment, or overdrive your stereo system, or crank the computer speakers to make them sound better.

    A similar method is the 'tube clean' sound that people say sounds 'magical' - it occurs only at the top end of the 'clean' area and the extra 'sparkle' is really a very mild clipping that makes some harmonic content to jump out of the speaker like lemmings in a burning airplane. Of course, between the power amp and the speakers you're losing the 'crunch' that people recognize as audible clipping, so you don't even think it's distortion - but it is. Mild overdrive can sound pretty tasty on a lot of things, try it out more often if you haven't already. Just remember those transients, the tricky fuckers - too much clipping and shaving, they leave you for their ex. Fuckers.

    Jeff
     
  6. Daunt

    Daunt Member

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    Do you do it before or after compression?
     
  7. CJWall

    CJWall Member

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    Dude, Steven's drum samples are SICK. Some of the best snare sounds I have ever heard.. Totally worth it.
     
  8. Ice Man

    Ice Man Member

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    True that...Just visited his website and they sound REAL sweet. So, anything new coming up, CJ?
     
  9. Zombietakeover

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    CJ has something new in the mix/tone thread ..
     
  10. Wadi

    Wadi Member

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    Thanks for this valuable tip. I tried clipping my mix using the puncher plugin in Wavelab then limiting. This works too!

    :headbang: :worship: :worship:
     
  11. stringy_

    stringy_ Member

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    Yeah that clipping tip was indeed helpful. Just barely shaving off the peaks helps tame those rebellious snare hits that pump my limiters. I'll compress heavily and limit my individual drum tracks and limit them lightly, then on the drum buss I'll throw another L2 so it knocks off good chunk. Then on the final mix I'll clip it and then throw on another L2.

    I can get 8dB RMS (which is too loud for my tastes) on this and it's a hell of a better sounding than my older stuff.
     
  12. Wadi

    Wadi Member

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    8db RMS gives me a headache ...really.o_O
     
  13. stringy_

    stringy_ Member

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    Yeah I know, I won't go over -10dB RMS myself. I just used -8dB to illustrate my point.

    There's a couple CDs in my collection that I can't listen to for more than 5 minutes because they're slammed to hell and make me go cross eyed.
     
  14. CJWall

    CJWall Member

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    Wow, that's a load of L2's and limiting for drums! :erk:
     
  15. stringy_

    stringy_ Member

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    Yes sir! Like I said previously, I don't normally mix like this, but I felt the need to slam the tracks in my current gig. The clients were very happy with the results, and it was decent to my ears.

    Having multiple L2s with gentler thresholds throughout the drum chain seems to help keep a little bit of dynamics in the sound more so than one L2 clamped down hard. I also set up a drum aux track that was smashed to hell with a Sonalksis compressor and a distortion plug-in. The aux track also has an EQ boost around 80Hz or so too. This little bit of parallel compression/distortion/EQ put a shit ton of punch into the original drum tracks when blended in.

    EDIT: I will add that you really have to keep a careful ear on your kicks. Disgusting distortion from compressors or limiters will come through on low frequencies quicker than they will on snare, high toms, etc.
     
  16. everybody's x

    everybody's x My name is Damage

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    If I'm somewhere between -11_-12 I am happy with it and it doesn't take a shit on the radio.
    -8? thats fucking nuts
     
  17. nwright

    nwright Member

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    How do you get that high of an RMS level? I'm lucky to be getting -18 and my mix sounds like I'm frying bacon!
     
  18. stringy_

    stringy_ Member

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    You get that kind of level by addressing your dynamics on the individual tracks themselves, don't just rely on the mastering comp to get you really loud.

    You also should use lookahead brickwall limiters. Compressors with fast attack times aren't designed to completely limit peaks...and those annoying little peaks are what will keep your volume down. For example, one snare peak will hit your limiter too hard on the master buss and it'll pump a bit. You need to get rid of that peak earlier in the chain.

    And watch the balance in the mix. Make sure you don't have too much energy anywhere that may contribute to overloading your limiters.

    This is just how I do it, everybody will have a different technique.

    The examples I've been using are pretty extreme, IMO nothing should ever go over maybe -11dB...I'm just saying that it's possible. Dynamics are a good thing.
     
  19. JBroll

    JBroll I MIX WITH PHYSICS!!!!

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    -11 is pretty high, but it still doesn't seem unreasonable technically if you have the chain set up so that each step does a little of the work. If you're relying on a master comp, it's going to sound like you tried to mash up all of the song into one box without sorting, arranging, or squishing beforehand, and you'll not only screw up half of your luggage but also fail to get it all set in a proper place and arranged comfortably. Mashing it all down with one step will basically be like getting a really fat guy to sit on your suitcase when you just can't get the latch right - once you've done it, stuff is squished, and there's really no more play room so if you don't get it all in you just have to find an even fatter guy, and then another if that wasn't enough, and so on... what we want to have is a bunch of little Smurfs running around in the luggage trying to fold our corners nicely and make sure the rectangular boxy things are aligned and cornered up, and that there aren't just balls of shirts and pants getting wrinkled and bunched up, and that there isn't excess space left unused between trinkets or air pockets sitting in clothing or anything like that. The reason is that you can always tell, when you pull out the shirt or the tie or the priceless Ming vase, who grabbed a fat guy (one single compression stage) and who employed a crack squadron of little luggage-gnomes (mild clips, limiters, several stages of compression) and we don't want any more excuses for America getting fatter.

    Jeff
     
  20. everybody's x

    everybody's x My name is Damage

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    So is shroom season late or early in San Antonio ?

    j/k

    nice analogy
     

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