This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

GMD Poll: Top Ten Films of 2019

Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by no country for old wainds, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. Carpe Mortem

    Carpe Mortem Benevolently Batshit

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    1,266
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I just realized I can't in good faith do this because there were too many I haven't seen yet, which I'm sure would be on my list (Ford vs Ferrari, Battle at Midway, Detective Pikachu...)
     
  2. no country for old wainds

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    7,317
    Trophy Points:
    113
    well you do have six weeks to catch up, although a profound masterpiece like detective pikachu may take longer than that to fully digest and appreciate
     
    CiG likes this.
  3. Carpe Mortem

    Carpe Mortem Benevolently Batshit

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    3,670
    Likes Received:
    1,266
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh I've already signed up for a class at the university on it, doesn't start yet though
     
  4. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    edf.jpg

    Some thoughts on Joker:

    Something picky out of the way first. The reveal that his girlfriend was actually a delusion was done too cheaply, it robbed it of impact. When she comes home and finds him in her apartment and acts shocked like they don't know each other, that was enough. The flashback to all the scenes where they were together only to cut to Joker in the same scenes alone was so hamfisted and weak. For me that whole segment could have been scrapped and replaced with a scene where they cross paths again in the hallway and she treats him like a stranger to be suspicious of, for example.

    For a director that has made statements about how things are spoonfed to viewers these days, he is guilty of doing the same thing here. It would have exposed his insanity in a much more gradually realised way rather than; Hey remember these scenes? Well he was actually alone the whole time! See, let me show you right now.

    I liked the visual juxtaposition of skeletal disheveled Fleck meeting plump and suited Wayne in the theater restroom that he could only get into by pretending to be an usher. Speaks also to an idea that historically the only way regular folks could interact with the privileged was through servantry. I also liked the hypocrisy of show business on full display, the way it commodifies the misery of people in the form of content with which to get rich, and in the same breath treats people like they're worthless garbage.

    One lesson Phillips seems to have placed in the film is that, contrary to Ein's comments, violence isn't the answer and this is symbolized quite well in the murder of Bruce Wayne's parents (after they just watched Blow Out at the cinema no less) to which the murderer in a clown mask says "You get what you deserve" which is of course Joker's punchline before he murders Murray. If we're to keep in mind that Joker is told from Fleck's perspective only, this act of copycat murder creates the chain of events that births Batman, his arch-nemesis, a 1%er authority figure that clamps down on crime more than any cop or commissioner "pig" could have ever hoped to do.

    Boring? Man I couldn't disagree more, it was exciting and honestly I didn't feel like there was much filler, and the pacing was rather good I felt.

    What the fuck, I laughed many fucking times. Either your sense of humour is broken or you went into Joker with way too high(brow) expectations, because holy shit there were absolutely some funny moments and a certain kind of playfulness throughout that directly clashes with your description of the film. :err:

    ...except that Fleck's descent into (further) insanity is spurred on by funding for mental health being cut so he can no longer access services and medication. That's by definition a critique of the Batman narrative, a kid who grows up seeing his parents murdered but his class status and privileged upbringing allows him to eventually take the "right" path whereas Fleck's trauma combined with his socio-economic position takes him down the very opposite path. It doesn't muddy the reading one iota, in fact it takes what can often be very one dimensional narratives about poor vs rich, white vs black and gives it more grounding in reality. Notice how there are just as many black characters in positions of power over Fleck as there are crawling through the trash with him? His councilor, the clerk who refuses to give him his mother's files, the doctor at the very end.

    What you're expecting from Joker is a singular cause for his violence, and instead Phillips gives us a multi-causal narrative that intersects poverty, childhood trauma and mental health.

    100% disagree here.

    I don't get this view myself (especially sympathizing with Ledger's Joker, really?). To me it seemed like the new Joker made it a point to convey that prior to killing the 3 Wallstreeters on the train he completely lacked agency. As he said, he finally feels alive and that people notice him, and so it seems to follow logically that any of the wit we know the character for could develop by the time Bruce grows up and becomes Batman (which would be like 10-15 years after this film's events?).

    I know it's comic books and all, but it seems ridiculous to me that we allow for Bruce to develop traits that eventually let him become the Batman we all know, but we expect Joker to just be what we know right from the start. This film attempts to dissolve our more cartoonish expectations of villains and I appreciate it for that at the very least.
     
  5. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    17,288
    Likes Received:
    1,309
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vheissu
    Well, I'm afraid this is going to simply be a subjectivity contest. I think your sense of humor might be broken. Joker was a sad, bleak, depressing film. There certainly wasn't any "playfulness throughout." At most, there were very brief, isolated moments of humor; but these were trampled by a narrative that forces its audience to sympathize with Arthur and then recoil when his only option for agency is to murder people. I don't see much comedic value in any of it.
     
  6. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    The film is functionally a comedy, written and directed by a comedy filmmaker. It has beats and gags just like the average comedy, so yeah you're absolutely incorrect on this one. Or at least, in my opinion you are. ;)
     
  7. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    17,288
    Likes Received:
    1,309
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vheissu
    I don't know what "functionally a comedy" means, but I'm pretty sure that's not accurate.
     
  8. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    Meaning like most comedies (especially black/dark comedies) it plunges you into a narrative and then hits you with a gag. Joker in many ways fits the literal definition of a black comedy, by taking a taboo subject and treating it with bitter amusement.

    You didn't laugh at the "oops I forgot to punch out" part? Or the part after he murders the guy who gave him the pistol when he says the little person can leave and then scares him suddenly? Or the part where he's rehearsing his entrance on Murray's show in his living room? Or the part when he accidentally fires his pistol and then cranks the television and says "I'm watching an old war movie" to lie about the noise? Or the part when he says the Wallstreeters "couldn't hold a tune" and that's why he killed them? Or the second time he shoots the already dead Murray and then nearly fires a third time but instead tosses the pistol? Or the scene when he confront young Bruce Wayne and he ducks below the wall and then pops back up with that dumb grin wearing a red clown nose? Hell I even laughed at the scene on the stairs when he's dancing to Gary Glitter. :lol:
     
  9. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    17,288
    Likes Received:
    1,309
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vheissu
    I laughed at one of the episodes you mention (the "accident" in the living--to avoid spoilers).

    But I don't see it as a film that is perpetually funny or playful throughout, or as a film that sets up a "gag." What's the gag in Joker? We see the entire thing coming from a mile away. It's a tragically predetermined film.
     
  10. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    Of course any origins film or film about a pre-existing person or character is going to be predetermined, you'd have to be an absolute muppet to think Joker is going to come out at the end of the film as anything other than The Joker.

    I guess we see the films very differently. As I said previously, I don't even agree with you that the film can't decide what it wants to say. Mental health as a subject doesn't undercut socio-economic/class issues, they go firmly hand-in-hand. I never said it was perpetually funny (very few straight up comedies are, let alone dark/black comedies) but I do think there's a playfulness. For example
    Fleck has just come home from bombing at a comedy show (though he's deluded as to how it went, as well as to whether his date was there) and as he tries to put his mother to bed he wants to dance with her and does so.

    I just don't recognize the film you're describing, I watched Joker last night and again tonight and it's all very raw and fresh in my memory.

    Edit: Hell, the final moments of the film are a great example,
    as he sings the lyrics to Sinatra's "That's Life" at the doctor with a cheeky grin on his face, then it cuts to him walking down the asylum corridor leaving bloody tracks behind ("some people get their kicks, stompin' on a dream"), dancing at the end of the corridor and then being chased left and right in a Scooby-Doo fashion.

    How is that bleak? Dark and deranged? Sure, but certainly not stripped of humour and playfulness.
     
    #30 CiG, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  11. no country for old wainds

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    7,317
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Filipe Furtado's Top 100 Films of 2019

    pretty sure this writing's been put through google translate at least twice haha, but he's always one of the more interesting and useful critics, i've found so many great obscure movies through him.
     
    CiG likes this.
  12. Baroque

    Baroque Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,459
    Likes Received:
    2,817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Southern California
    I’m glad these threads exist for recommendations, but I can’t think of a year I’ve definitely even seen 10 movies
     
  13. RadicalThrasher

    RadicalThrasher Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2016
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    5,794
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicagoland, Illinois
    1. Dragged Across Concrete
    2. Joker
    3. Rambo: Last Blood
    4. Crawl
    5. The Lighthouse
    6. Primal
    7. The Banana Splits Movie
    8. Godzilla: King of the Monsters

    Work in progress, wanted to make sure i got something in before i forget.
     
    #33 RadicalThrasher, Jan 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  14. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    I wanted to see this, it looks like a lot of fun.
     
  15. RadicalThrasher

    RadicalThrasher Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2016
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    5,794
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicagoland, Illinois
    Yeah i thought it was. Can't really even believe this got made, but it was fun.
     
    CiG likes this.
  16. no country for old wainds

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    7,317
    Trophy Points:
    113
    reckon you might like this dude:

     
    RadicalThrasher and CiG like this.
  17. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    That looks fucked up. :lol:
     
  18. no country for old wainds

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    7,317
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it's the same director/actor pairing who did that buzzard movie i kept recommending you. :thumbsup:
     
  19. CiG

    CiG Deformed Urban Pustule

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Messages:
    38,705
    Likes Received:
    19,560
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    W.A.
    The Alchemist Cookbook guy too, damn. His stuff is kind of hard to track down.
     
  20. no country for old wainds

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    7,317
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you'd think buzzard would be easy to find at least, that one got a lot of hype. the others are pretty obscure though
     

Share This Page