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Good bye amp simulation :)

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by kev, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

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    "Drop any distortion simulation like a hot potato. Forget about it….you will thank me later. I tried to do “professional” recordings with it, and it just doesn’t work….though I do actually rely on sims for pristine cleans. The whole thing is that emulation hasn’t got to the authentic stage, because it doesn’t sound like it’s pushing air, and it’s using transistors, which add a 3rd harmonic in the distortion, which is not pleasant to the ears. For single notes it’s okay, but transistor distortion just sounds unpleasant when you have multiple strings playing, especially on an open d or g chord….it’s a whole bunch of these harsh overtones. I just don’t think that transistor power amps can process all the information in a way that it’s pleasing to the ears….it’s trying to process numbers, where the ears are processing overtones."

    So I mic'd the 5150 tonight, with the volume cranked mildly in the room. Now i've been persevering with amp simulation and impulse technology for a good year or two now, tweaking, often into the early hours of the morning driving myself (and many others) insane. Holy fuck have I been robbing myself blind- it just isnt there yet is it.

    The spirit, the third dimension, the balls, whatever you want to call it... it all arrived with little to no effort, when i put that 57 in front of the Marshall. I guess it highlights what everyone knows deep down... it's just not acheivable with digital technology and probably never will be. This really buggers up my ITB hopes concerning a lot of things.

    All hail the half stack fuckers! My wallet is doomed. :Smokin:
     
  2. Harley Barley

    Harley Barley Member

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    HAIL THE HALF STACK!!, ive been contemplating that for so long and ive made a vow to only ever record bands with real amps from now on!
     
  3. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

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  4. Slammer88

    Slammer88 Member

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    u rich bastard :p
     
  5. guitarguru777

    guitarguru777 Member

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    Welcome to the club bro .... Now ... if you want to hear something totally crazy run from the direct out on the back of the 5150 into your interface and put the Catharsis Fredman impulses on it. Be sure the cab is still hooked up to the head. Total insanity!
     
  6. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

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    haha, dont get me wrong, i've had the 5150 for about 3 years its just i've been in the false hope of amp simulation getting there somehow for me oneday. I once did a cover of nevermore with the rig as described above, ( I wasnt using ryans impulses though, as it was more authentic to use Marshall impulses in that particular case ). I fear even Ryans great impulses might inflict "static tone" syndrome on me (although I might give them a whirl)

    Thinking about "x patterning" either the 2x12 or 4 x 12 marshall I have around for more options in future. I wonder if a 2 x 12 would sound freaky with a g12 75 and a v30 in it.

    They're all on gearslutz :D
     
  7. RattyFiend

    RattyFiend bree blargh reeeeee

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    sounds great man :headbang:

    wish i could track my amp, in a small apartment with very thin walls at the moment though.... ugh lol
     
  8. abt

    abt BT

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    No neighbors Kev?
     
  9. reg3n

    reg3n Señor Miembro

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    i don't hear much of a difference between the amp sim and the real thing ;___;
     
  10. Trevoire520

    Trevoire520 Member

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    I've done this with my Marshall 2x12" and I think it sounds pretty decent to be honest. Gets a nice mix between the mid clarity of the V30 and the big bottom of the T75 in the room. For gigs I always just get the V30 mic'd up mind you as I'd rather have a too mid heavy tone than a too scooped tone.

    Here's a quick and dirty test I did one day with my Marshall 1936 2x12" that has on T75 and one V30 in it. Please keep in mind this is VERY rough:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1949675/Rose Of Sharyn Reamp.mp3

    Chain was:
    TS7
    Orange Tiny Terror
    Marshall 1936 mic'd with I5's

    This was a proper throw the mic's up and hit record job, done in a small bedroom, no tweaking of mic positions or anything, just wanted to see how the T75 V30 combo was.

    Bit of eq on mixdown as the TT has no eq controls, think I pulled out some mid and added some high's (too much I think, it's a bit fizzy) Could probably have done with a touch more lows.

    I know this isn't up to the standard of most guys on here, don't judge me! lol.
     
  11. SimonSez

    SimonSez Member

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    It's true that aliasing and that unpleasantness is present in digital emulations. But, I saw an interesting post on fractal audio's website: http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=693

    Apparently it isn't present in the Axe-Fx.

    I have an Axe-FX standard on order and hopefully I'll get it this week and I'll be able to put it to the test (and I'll definitely post clips here and they won't be the usual 'super-low-tuned-where-you-can't-hear-much-tone-anyway' kind of recordings).
     
  12. smashcla

    smashcla Member

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    I use amp sim (pod farm) and for me works very well... its all about good tweaking, good eq, good mixing and good mastering.. there's alot of commercial albums that were recorded with amp sims and maybe u wouldn't even notice it.

    that's my point of view.. obviously micing real cabs is great dont get me wrong but amp sims are not bad at all and with time they are getting much better.
     
  13. Joshua Wickman

    Joshua Wickman Yes Sir!

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  14. schnykeees

    schnykeees Member

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    sims are such a cheap option though. if you don't have the massive collection of the same analog gear, it's a no brainer to use one of them. the average sim has like 15 amps, same amount of cabs, a bunch of pedals. yea you sacrifice tone, but you get so much more versatility.

    personally, sims shine in the pre production stage. if i had 10 guitars, the same amount of pick ups to interchange, 10 amps/cabs and a stack of modded pedals i'd be set... but i don't. so i have to use sims in my final mixes. :(

    but great engineers take what they have and make it sound the best. that's what i'm working on.
     
  15. narcossintese

    narcossintese Member

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    Can you post clips of the the impulse and the real cab on a mix (with bass and drums)? I don´t think it is going to make much difference!
     
  16. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    I have never used amp modelers and am pretty happy for it. :lol:

    5150/mesa DR/ v30s for the win!
     
  17. UncleBob

    UncleBob Member

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    There's only a slight difference between the two, I'm sure you could match the "impulse" to the "real" with some eq and saturation type plug-in no?

    And in a full mix would that slight difference matter, or even be noticeable.

    I'm all for real amps etc, but for those who can't afford it or pull it off, amp sims+impulses are a pretty good option these days, especially if it's either that or recording a crappy little amp in a bedroom.
     
  18. UncleBob

    UncleBob Member

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    Just listened to both clips again and the fact that the amp sim sounds pretty close (enough) to the real thing seems quite favorable to the amp sims.

    Anyway, whatever works best, there's no right or wrong way of doing anything.
     
  19. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    FX loop send of my Laney into my Hi-Z input on the soundcard, then going into some Redwirez impulses... sounds much better than using an amp sim. I only do this for quiet recording though. I'd rather use a real cab in most situations.

    I am gassing for an Axe-FX though.
     
  20. UncleBob

    UncleBob Member

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    Was going to say, probably the best compromise is an actual amp head into impulse.
     

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