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Guitar editing

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by NSGUITAR, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

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    I just stick with good old S key. Split, cut out unneeded noises. Take roughly 5 minutes a song. I'm a fan of live takes, I pride myself on precise rhythm. Been that way since I heard that megadeth did one long rhythm take on Rust in peace.

    Good chops or GTFO.
     
  2. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

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    The problem is when a guitar player that sounds like shit is PAYING ME
    to make the record sound like it was recorded by james hetfield.

    i don't like it and something inside me dies everytime i do it BUT
    i have to do it if i want a happy client.

    Cuz that player is going to tell his shitty playing friends "hey we recorded
    with a guy that make us sound like we dont suck ass" and his shitty friend will
    ask me to record his "masterpiece"...

    and the circle of pain and suffering starts again for me...:cry:
     
  3. setyouranchor

    setyouranchor Celestial Recordings

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    Flex time in Logic
     
  4. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

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    Hopefully you do get payed per hour for the editing at least^^

    I rather record one good band a year then one crappy band a month.
    I think it's nicer to have the good band tell their good playing friends how I made it sound awesome then to get into the "circle of pain" with people who also aren't ready to record yet.
    Most likely those are the people who bitch about proper pricing too (in my experience at least)

    I don't have to make a living out of it though, so take it with a grain of salt ;)
     
  5. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    I just slip them around like everyone else but I only fix things that are broken. It's 99% about the take. If I'm going to suffer so are they.
     
  6. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

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    Sadly i charge per song... i found that people are more "nervous" and less focused on playing and more focused on time and money when charging per hour is involved...and EVERYONE underestimates the amount of time they are gonna need to record their part of the song...

    Everyone bitches about pricing :rofl:DD that's how the world is...

    What im trying to say is that sometimes i just have to edit it to hell and back
    to make it sound good...because in the end this cd is gonna have my name on it and i "need" to make it sound good for potential new clients...
    so...

    back on topic

    i just finished this book

    [​IMG]

    and it recommends this kind of crossfade for everything

    [​IMG]

    and this one for between time streched and non-streched stuff

    [​IMG]
     
  7. DevonSteelman

    DevonSteelman Producer/Engineer

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  8. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    I've got that book...

    Is it bad that I disagreed with half of the stuff in there?:popcorn:
     
  9. zirkonflex

    zirkonflex You name it

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    I just go through the song and edit like 10 to 20 notes for guitars and bass, if theres something off but the rest is tracked well I'll replay the specific part and jam it in.
     
  10. guitarguru777

    guitarguru777 Member

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    You know as soon as I replied to this thread a band came in to start recording that couldnt play to a click AT ALL! I actually tracked each part of the song separately and I have to edit ti all together.....

    UGHHH!

    Hell the drummer couldnt even play a last at one point so I had to have him record each drum separately ...lol
     
  11. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

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    THe whole idea of slip editing the DI is so fuckin gay. Of course I nudge a couple of notes here and there but i rather record another take even if it take hours.

    I wouldn't record a band that i knew sucked donkey balls.
     
  12. NSGUITAR

    NSGUITAR Member

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    I think you guys who think editing guitars is "dumb" or "gay" are pretty damn closed minded, I'd say.


    The truth is, nobody is perfect... But their demand is perfection.. So the ONLY way to receive a perfect product is to make it perfect, using the correct tools.


    You can argue that a good take is better than editing.. But have you ever gotten a near perfect take AND edited it as well? I promise you it makes a huge difference. Things resonate differently when things are lined up differently.


    I don't typically edit the shit out of straight metal, but for your modern hardcore, you bet ya! ESPECIALLY considering that the majority of hardcore 'musicians' are not typically the best players.

    You edit drums to make them perfect, why not guitars? Times are changing people.
     
  13. guitarguru777

    guitarguru777 Member

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    I prefer my projects to have HUMAN elements in them, maybe the string scrape between 2 chords, or a stick click from the srummer. I perfer organic to robotic. Probably why I hate 90% of the new shit coming out like Periphery and all these "core" bands. Found like machines paying shit not people.
     
  14. NSGUITAR

    NSGUITAR Member

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    Oh dude! I completely agree!
    I'm not talking about compensating organicness for editing purposes.. I only typically edit chuggy stuff, to make sure it's perfect.. Anything else (Tremelo parts, choruses, verses) stay just solid takes.

    I leave a ton of organicness to my mixes as well, you can hear it usually.
     
  15. S-O

    S-O Member

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    I agree with the human organic part, but the trend of hyper produced music has been growing, and since any of us noobs can get reaper and a fast track and be a bedroom studio, people have new expectations of what services should cost and new expectations of what those services include.

    Kids now want metal that if we replaced the sounds with synths and 808s would sound like a club trance tune. Super robot instruments, pitched vocals, tuned clean vocals. Blah blah blah.

    Back on topic a bit more, I too used to slip edit everything in cubase, but I've had to work more and more in Pro Tools HD systems, that tab to transient has made editing go by so much faster, especially for projects that require the least editing. Also, if I am feeling SUPER lazy with a brvtal mehtuhlcore project, I may edit one guitar tight, and cheat on the other with something like Vocalign and bam! Edits done. Or edit one tight, and the other for the more human feel.
     
  16. deanbailey

    deanbailey O.C.D Member

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    Haven't been on this forum in a while..

    To get back to the main topic, I'm not too sure what artefacts you might be talking about but when I first starting with slip editing I had double hits and wrongly pitched "air" which were from either the attack or decay of the note and to get around that (which for some reason took me a while to figure out) I took off the "snap to" button and grabbed the cross fade it self and dragged it back or forward, overlapping those artefacts further out of the audio event.
    Or I'd find another piece of what I'm looking for later or earlier in the performance (specifically looking for either the individual attack, decay, sustain or air of the note).

    Then, listening to it in the song after minimising everything to desktop (because I found looking at the meters and audio images affects how you listen) and see if the "vibe" with the rest of the performance on solo and with the song still feels good. Mainly focusing on the latter because you can sometimes hide those "artefacts" in the mix, plus no ones going to hear the part in solo anyway :p.

    Being able to 'read' the image of the audio event helped me out here. For example, if you zoom in you should be able to identify where the instance of the pick/stick makes contact, affects the source, where it reacts etc (and that's just the attack lol). That way you can make cuts and replace the sound a lot smoother than just cut-and-slide. YMMV :)

    Regarding the organic topic, my opinion is that it's all fine and cool to keep your performances morally correct but that means there's an extreme focus required on the ground work (tightness, tuning, using the appropriate dynamics and the emotion of the performance etc) which a lot of guys underestimate because of it's cumbersome nature.

    (I know what it means) but here I am assuming organic is understood as one take or even section-by-section? Because if you're just punching in every 2 bars...you're pretty much 'editing' and might as well suck it up and admit you're not as good as you think :p.

    In my studio It comes down to the direction you're going with the production. It's a bit of a juggle because personally I found If you want to appeal more or increase your fan base then keeping your mixes as clean as possible is important for easy listening, and doing a morally correct album (unless you're working with an immaculate band) means it will be less pleasing to the ear due to small (inevitable) errors like cutting a chord short on the last few milliseconds because you're anticipating the next note or getting that moving-fingers-on-the-strings sound or those horrible string slides...
    ...also slight tuning instabilities from fretting a little too hard or bending the string a few cents out because the chord shape is awkward or the note was a stretch etc

    And the last thing you want in this situation is a potential fan not feeling your band due to a raw sounding mix where the performances comes across "unprofessionally" played...only because the 'standard' left by the top metal guys is really high with their perfect takes (most often thanks to a little editing).

    What I keep in mind is even though sometimes I 'frown upon' over working a production, I still listen to super produced albums because they sounds good (bottom line), and no one really wants to hear an album that was done "the right way" (in the musicians opinion) but is being potentially let down by the production.

    Edit: Except with the Trve Kvlt culture where it's cool to have bad mixes.
     
  17. NSGUITAR

    NSGUITAR Member

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    This man speaks truth.

    Impressed man.
     

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