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How do you route/bus with many vocal tracks?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by GuitarMaestro, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. GuitarMaestro

    GuitarMaestro Member

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    I feel putting your compression in the group channel is not the right thing to do. Instead of "seeing" a vocal track and working on it's dynamics the compressor sees a sum of signals and compresses accordingly, which means that when one track is loud at one moment, all the other tracks are compressed as well that moment. Even if they dont need it. To me that's against the purpose: You want louder parts of one track compressed, so that the other tracks that arent as loud dont get lost. Or am I wrong here?
     
  2. James Murphy

    James Murphy Member

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    yes, that's right.... thought i had made that point earlier. maybe i didn't word it clearly. it's not a big deal on a parallel compression bus, but you wouldn't want to just send all your vox to the same bus, and only that bus, and compress the output of that bus without the un-/individually compressed vox still returning on their own channels ... unless all the vox tracks were all performing the same part all the time (like with doubled vox)... even then, i don't do it. except for parallel compression busses, as i've said. was that clear? lol, sorry for the convoluted explanation. basically, with overlapping vox...if you just bus everything together and compress the bus... you'll get unwanted "ducking" everytime there's an overlap.
     
  3. C_F_H_13

    C_F_H_13 Protools Guru

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    Very true. However in my case, I've done so much automation on the individual tracks, that no one vocal is jumping out, except the lead, which is one it's own aux. The group are all at the appropraite volumes before they hit compression. And again, in my case, it's seriously probably 1-3 db of gain reduction if that. For me (and YMMV) it helps gel background groups together.
     
  4. metalkingdom

    metalkingdom the kinder, gentler me

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    You'll never get a great vocal mix doing that.
     
  5. C_F_H_13

    C_F_H_13 Protools Guru

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    thanks for the tip, but I've done plenty this way. But please, explain how I'm wrong.
     
  6. metalkingdom

    metalkingdom the kinder, gentler me

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    3 posts above your last. There are other reasons, too. I'm too tired/burnt to type them though.

    Let's hear some of those mixes. Not trying to call you out, it's just that vox are my specialty and I'm having a tough time believing that a really good mix is possible using your methods.
     
  7. C_F_H_13

    C_F_H_13 Protools Guru

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    well give it a shot and see for yourself...automation is the key.
     
  8. GuitarMaestro

    GuitarMaestro Member

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    Yeah....now that I read your older post again I noticed....:loco:
    I thought that compressing a group channel of different vox makes no sense from the start. I was just curious if C_F_H_13 really worked that way and why.
     
  9. scorpio01169

    scorpio01169 Member

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    well compression was somewhat part of a tool for studios that didnt have automation back in the day. so if you have time to do fader rides on every track that has leveling problems then i guess thats cool...but in a thread i asked before about what is the highest track count you've ever had. i dont see peeps who said they are doing fader rides on 50+ tracks. maybe compressing the individual tracks then grouping them and then automating that group fader.
     
  10. C_F_H_13

    C_F_H_13 Protools Guru

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    Yes I do. I rely heavily on automation, something I learned from watching terry date work for over a month. Yes he was doing it on a 4000 G+, but he did alot of automation within the PT session. His philosophy (the way I understood it anyways) was that avoiding processing the signal at all is always better then automatically grabbing eq or compression to fix it, when a volume change may be all you need.

    I understand my way may not work for everyone/anyone, I just wanted to share.
     
  11. GuitarMaestro

    GuitarMaestro Member

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    Thanks for the answers!

    To me compression(and everybody else I guess) is not only a tool to control overall volume and to replace automation. Most use it to shape the sound of the vocals and make them sound more powerful. I cant imagine how you do your mixes without individual compression for vocal tracks. Getting that effect with just automation has to be ALOT of work?:loco:
     
  12. ghostofbridgeport

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    Thanks for the answers!

    To me compression(and everybody else I guess) is not only a tool to control overall volume and to replace automation. Most use it to shape the sound of the vocals and make them sound more powerful. I cant imagine how you do your mixes without individual compression for vocal tracks. Getting that effect with just automation has to be ALOT of work?
     
  13. metalkingdom

    metalkingdom the kinder, gentler me

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    Automation is standard and has been for 35 years. As far as not using processing if it's not needed, that's not really Terry Date's philosophy...Everyone who really knows how to mix understands that. Terry Date uses a shitload of eq and compression at the end of the day. He also uses a lot of it during tracking.
     
  14. GuitarMaestro

    GuitarMaestro Member

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    Whats going on here? Why does ghostofbridgeport's post contain the text of my post?!?!?:zombie:
     
  15. everybody's x

    everybody's x My name is Damage

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    to may to to mah to

    wait til MK and 2012 discover they work together 3 times a year.

    "so, I was arguing with this dude on Sneap's board......."


    Interesting info through a hostile thread. I've always bussed my vocals together AND individually automated and compressed them. I thought it was a fairly standard workflow. But then again I don't claim to know what I am doing.
     
  16. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    i combine any vocals that are doubles into their own stereo track,and compress em individually there then automate individually. if i need to change em, i adjust the automation, or use trim
    makes sense to me
     

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