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how to deal with crap drummers?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by meanmrmustad, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. meanmrmustad

    meanmrmustad Supreme Member

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    I get bands recording with me with good guitarists but the drummers don't know how to use a metronome, I try and make them record guitars to a click and then record the drums to that but they always manage to convince me that they want to record without a click at the same time as the guitarist, I succumb and later in the editing part I have nothing where to guide me from so its a lot more difficult to fix timing errors. Do you guys think I should charge for drum editing cos its hard? Force them to record? Or record drums one session just program the drumtracks?

    Do people normally charge for this or is it part of mixing because its giving me a headache.

    Thoughts? What should I do?
     
  2. TheIllicitOne

    TheIllicitOne Ik ben lekker...

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    click or raise your price I say.
     
  3. bassguy

    bassguy Member

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    If you REALLY wanted to you could manually map out each bar in your daw and have it calculate tempo changes, it makes the editing a little easier, but it's still not really worth doing imo. I'd make them retrack to a click, if they can't then just program them. Or if they can't play to a click tell them to find someone else, your call
     
  4. 006

    006 Member

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    I refuse to work with anyone that doesn't want to use a click. That's my preference, though.

    The benefits are abundant, most of all just making the end product sound more professional and better than without it. In my experience, most clients that had some aversion to a click didn't actually understand it in the first place, or they just haven't ever worked with one before and are "afraid" of it. They would say they don't want to sound too tight, or say it ruins the feel of their songs. All of which is total bullshit. The click is the same thing as when you bob your head to a song to the beat. It's that simple.
     
  5. Kita

    Kita Member

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    Just record and make guide clicks manually for any parts that need it.
     
  6. XxSicRokerxX

    XxSicRokerxX Gabriel R.

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    There has to be some type of pulse going on through the music. Perhaps try finding individual tempos such as during the VERSE of the song use the TAP tempo feature. For example maybe the verse is 120 but then for the chorus its 100. Then back to 120 for the verse. I'm sure you know this but if hes half the decent drummer you should be able to recognize if he's playing 8ths or 16ths on the hat/cymbal/ride and just tap along and figure out the tempos. You should definitely ask for money if they are unwilling to work on a click.
     
  7. Mashreef

    Mashreef New Metal Member

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    I just kicked out 2 bands for this shit :D
     
  8. Skaldir

    Skaldir formerly known as Unicorn

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    Just don't edit the performance. Just punch in again when someone made a mistake.
    I did this a lot of times. Its not as bad as you think in the end and you're done fast.
    There is nothing wrong when a sloppy band sounds sloppy I think.
     
  9. schwinginbatman

    schwinginbatman It's shittay!

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    I hate this sort of thing. A band I'm in recorded without a click. The first song was because I had so much gear issues (My interface acts like a little bitch whenever it has to record outside of my house for some reason) that I honestly forgot to get a click track going. The second time, I remembered, but the bassist made me take it off because "it was messing him up." Admittedly, it was the stock REAPER click, which is annoying as hell, but the point still stands. I've been making tempo maps for the next time we record, so that none of them can comment on how it isn't correct, or it makes it difficult to record. Can't play to the click track, it's your damn fault, not mine.

    Compare that to my other band, which does record to a click. The recording sounded tight, and far more pro than the other one, just by virtue of the fact that we recorded to a click, as opposed to "free-ballin" it. If a band can keep time well enough, maybe they won't need it. But 9/10 times, a band says they don't want the click because they know they can't keep time that well and don't want to be exposed.
     
  10. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    Just recorded our drummer last night to a click.

    One song done in about 1.5 hours. There were a few tiny parts where he was getting messed up....and I was scared shitless to just punch him in, as I was afraid the cut would be very noticeable.....but I was very wrong, and it actually fell together quite nicely.

    The more a drummer/band records to a click, the easier it will get for them.
     
  11. AllanD

    AllanD boom tap boom-boom tap

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    I've recorded multiple bands via just guitarist and drummer with zero click, and have had good results. Just make the sure the drums are never silent, if he's quiet for a section he better be foot pedalling that hat to keep the beat. Also watch for any extreme speed ups or slow downs.
     
  12. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    If I remember correctly, Lamb of God - 'New American Gospel' was recorded without a click.

    And that shit is pretty goddamn tight!!
     
  13. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    If they suck, record them to a click in small sections, and don't let them use the kick pedal. Program the bass drum afterwards.

    What's more important a record sounding good and getting done on time and within budget, or their Ego.
     
  14. tomas_almeida

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    First you enrol in a Brazilian jiu jitsu academy. Then you train for three months.

    Now, next time a crappy drummer appears you go over to the drum kit, knock them down and get a good lock on them. You make it very painful and only release the lock when you have him sign a contract in which is is obliged to practice to metronome for 8 hours a day for the next 5 days. Because he has to sign the contract you can't make an armbar on his dominant arm.

    Or just smash him in the head with a stand.
     
  15. Loren Littlejohn

    Loren Littlejohn Lover of all boobage.

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    Yeah this is what I do. Takes around 40 mins in cubase, totally worth it. :headbang:

    Tempo map looks ridiculous though :lol:

    [​IMG]

    but the thing is, you can see there are really only 3, maybe 4 different tempos in this song.
     
  16. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    ^^ Holy shit!!
     
  17. meanmrmustad

    meanmrmustad Supreme Member

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    Gonna get them to re-track the guitars and bass and ima program the drums:heh: (they wont tell the drummer)
     
  18. Fredrik-Ablaze

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    Charge by the hour, make them record over and over again until they nail it
     
  19. Shinozoku

    Shinozoku Senior Memory

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    I would say just feed the guitarists the click and make the drummer go by them. Sample the dude's kit and tell him it's for minor edits, in case he slips up on a fill or kick or something and doesn't wanna re track it.
     
  20. TomCase

    TomCase Member

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    I often record bands without a click. I remove the front kick head and stuff it full of shit so it's as muffled and quiet as can be, then trigger it. The guitarist and drummer play the song until we have all the parts tight. This usually means editing the different takes together. The band goes home and I edit all the kicks so they are perfect in context with the drum parts.

    I find this keeps the session running smooth and the drums sounding human, yet very tight.

    I'm then a ball buster on the guitarist so his parts are flawless.

    I also charge by the project, not the hour. Some things are going to suck no matter what, just try to make it suck as little as possible, get paid, and move on.

    Now if I'm recording a rock song, it's click or no go, but a metal song with tons of parts and tempo changes, I haven't found it that important.
     

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