This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

I think I'm starting to prefer unboosted amps

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Mattayus, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Mattayus

    Mattayus Sir Groove-A-Lot

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,058
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cambs, UK
    i.e. without a TS out front.

    I know some amps like Rectifiers and original 5150/6505's just can't really cut it without a boost, but the II/+ series amps feel just about compressed enough to get away with it, given the right settings.

    I'll put some clips up tomorrow of boosted vs unboosted, but after playing around I've come to realise there's a certain grittiness and palpability to be had from an unboosted amp of that ilk.

    I've currently got a 6534+, and a Marshall JVM410h, and both sound gloriously aggressive without the Maxon in front. I find the boost adds a smooth gloss over the tone that takes out some often-needed ugliness. If everything you're working with is coming straight from the head then it tends to be a little gnarlier and adds a touch more definition (or, rather, doesn't take any away).

    Since a TS cuts more, I find when taking a boost off you have to compensate by taking out a lot of bass, and adding more treble (and possibly mids).

    Thoughts?

    My unboosted settings for II/+ style amps:

    Gain: whatever is comfortable with the pickups/player, but obviously a lot higher than with a boost. Around 8 though, usually.
    Low: 5 (the more gain you add to an amp, the more bass needs taking out)
    Mid: 2-3
    High: 7
    Res: 6
    Pres: 8.5

    The JVM is almost identical, but with mids around 4.
     
  2. Machinated

    Machinated Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2005
    Messages:
    4,230
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Milton Keynes, UK
    I agree that the tone without a tube screamer can be way better, but every situation is completely different.

    You'll never be trying to achieve the same sound on everything you work on. It's always good to vary things up. Also some TS's can sound so different to others IMO. I find the maxon 808 warmer and more organic than an ibanez 808 which is more modern and pushed IMO.
     
  3. Mattayus

    Mattayus Sir Groove-A-Lot

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,058
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cambs, UK
    Yeah man, totally agreed. Horses for courses, etc, but I'm just talking about the general voicing of an amp. If I can get away with not using a TS, I will.
    And it's not even really tuning-reliant. I did it in B the other day, sounded great too.
     
  4. ~BURNY~

    ~BURNY~ Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    5,096
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Depends a lot on the player too.

    Hetfield-like oblique string digger vs sissy tickler...
     
  5. Mattayus

    Mattayus Sir Groove-A-Lot

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,058
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Cambs, UK
    Yep. This is why hard pickers will always get better tones!
     
  6. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Poconos, PA
    Yes. I was boosting my Mesa Mark IV for a while, then realized it sounded tighter without the boost. Now I kick on the TS for leads and thats about it.
     
  7. Notuern

    Notuern Bloody vaginal belch

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I think tube screamers make every single guitar sound seem the same: Honky, undynamic and bland(Even though it cleans things up.).
    If i need to boost in some way, i prefer to do it with an EQ(Since it allows you to adjust the sound according to the player, guitar and amp.).
     
  8. Nimvi

    Nimvi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    There are definitely great pros and cons to either method. I really like the edge the ts7 gives and it pushes the guitar right into the desired space in the mix. But when I switch it off after playing with it for an hour, I cannot deny the feeling that the amp instantly comes to life and feels more responsive (also partially because of the lower gain I must add).

    In a way I use mine like I would use a compressor. If the performance is good but the sound needs tightening up for whatever reason, it is often the ticket. If the dynamics and alive-feel of the performance are key, I will probably go without a screamer, even if it mucks up the low end a bit.

    Also depends on the genre. For super tight fast metal, I think a TS will save you from a lot of headaches come mix time, but for stuff like stoner, heavy post, and generally looser heavy rock sounds, the loss of control may feel like an addition to the vibes.
     
  9. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    I agree most of the time. To quote the het, why spend 2000 dollars on an amp then poison its tone with a $50 mud box :p
     
  10. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    If you guys want some great reference tones without boost check out Fredman productions. They never use tubescreamers, atleast they didn't when i was around.
     
  11. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    5,232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    ^^ The good old In Flames stuff was never boosted as far as I know.
     
  12. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Not the new ones either. The Confession mix is so crazy. Usually evh 5150 and a slaved engl or 5150.
     
  13. Nimvi

    Nimvi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    850
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    ^Is that so? Interesting, did not know that. It probably helps that those guys play tight as hell. I was very impressed when I saw them live a couple of years ago.
     
  14. greyskull

    greyskull Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    6,077
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Totally depends on the music, player and guitar.
     
  15. HCL

    HCL Holy Crap! Lions!

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Plymouth, UK
    Depends on the music, tuning, amp and pickups for me. If you're in D standard on a 6505+ playing thrash you don't really need it, it's entirely optional.
     
  16. tempe

    tempe Captain Midnight

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I've never been a huge fan, I generally just hit the amp slightly harder out of the DAW than a guitar would normally. I'm all for a bit of nastiness in rhythm guitars.
     
  17. Alphanumeric

    Alphanumeric Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    UK
    You can't avoid it really for some kind of 5150 or Mesa if you're tuning low, I find it not only tightens it up as obvious, but I much prefer the growl of the mids, rather than a "wamp" sound around 200-300 it gets bumped a little higher to 400-500, and for leads its a no-brainer. For diesel, engls ... there's no point to a screamer.
     
  18. Flow Of Time

    Flow Of Time Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Same for me.. I recently discovered that I vastly prefer the X50 without a tubescreamer. Didn't have a chance to test it with the real 6505 beacause I don't have a cab right now...
     
  19. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma.
    5150 sounds killer for rock tones unboosted.
     
  20. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,687
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    I play my 6505+ without a TS live (red ch). Tight enough for me!

    Most of the time end up with one in there for reamping though....I just like where it get's the tone that way...not always, but a lot of the reamps go that way.

    The one ch where I never used a TS in cause it did absolutely nothing was the red ch. of the EVH. That is one tight fucking amp.
    In the blue channel a TS get's a lot of love from me haha
     

Share This Page