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Discussion in 'In Flames' started by Ilias7, Feb 7, 2020.
Also - Dimension Zero, or GTFO.
n'Flaymz, sellout muthafuckas since 2004.
DZ was pretty damn good, although I get the feeling even if it was brought back now it wouldn't be the same. Jesper hasn't written any decent MDM since He Who Shall Not Bleed and if Cyhra is anything to go by he isn't returning to that sound any time soon.
We'll always have the classics though
Didn't Jesper tease that new DZ stuff is coming somewhat recently ago?
Yeah, he's been saying that for about a decade I'll believe it when I see it.
12 years, actually!
I meant his instagram, he posted something DZ-related and teased new material being in the making. I could swear it was about a year ago or something. I'll try to find it tomorrow.
About 4 years ago he said he had three or four songs done, so I think he has material. He also said the other members are busy and it's difficult to get their schedules together, so he had no idea when anything would be recorded or released.
I asked about DZ to Jesper at his facebook page, he said EP is planned but that's what we always hear.. Plus one of the highest note of DZ was the vocals, Jocke. He will not be part of the new EP so I'm kinda lowering my expectations.
Btw lot of new faces around here, new for me anyway Nice to see that a forum at 2020 still active
I always liked DZ vocals but I don't think they would be that hard to replicate. They were very much one-dimensional (no pun intended). Not a bad thing, and I don't mean to demean the effort... but DZ were always pretty straightforward and to the point - fast tracks, thrashy riffs and simple arrangements. Pretty much songs that were impolite and brute enough to not make it for IF stuff. The more the time passes, the more I appreciate that band.
According to wikipedia the guy who used to do screams for Amaranthe is now their vocalist I am sure that will please many on here.
With that said his screams are fine imo, similar to how Speed sounded on the earlier Soilwork releases, so I think he'd sound fine on DZ stuff.
Since 2002, apparently: R2R was a breaking point for a lot of "fans", yet personally I still don't see why. But still - Siren Charms did to me what R2R did to a lot of people, however in my case it was the proverbial "last straw". I just couldn't care less any longer.
Even newer material is uber superior - A Paler Shade of White, that Deny solo (I think Daniel Antonsson wrote it, he mos def told me a story about the solo, but I might be thinking about a different song, after all story time occurred in early 2010), the whole record is relentless, melody and proper aggression is packed into a bunch of 2-3 minutes long tracks.
R2R is when they stopped writing actual riffs, dropped their tuning and started using shitty generic chugging rhythm guitars. Also when they heavily implemented electronic beats. Sure, Colony already had way too much keyboards, but R2R was overwhelming in that regard. So there you go, that's concisely why.
From an objective standpoint, the only thing worse than those flaws is that R2R was followed by a very, very subpar STYE. STYE's second half is arguably the weakest chainlink of songs in their entire catalogue (sans those very last few botched abortions). Even ASOP and SOAPF had a more solid sequence of tracks than the second half of Soundtrack. I'll admit that I love some of the songs on that record - Evil in a closet is in my top 10 In Flames songs. I genuinely believe they could've become a household name for modern metal in the USA if they stuck with that R2R/Come Clarity formula. Instead they went on to make ASOP and onwards and dropped so fucking hard in both quality and actual market relevance that they had to start supporting the bands that used to open for them.
Yes I remember him saying he would release stuff ''for sure'' in 2018/2019. But they did replace Joakim with some other dude and I remember looking him up and he had very similar sounding vocals so I don't think that part would be a problem.
2002, when RTR came out was the beginning of me not caring. I think for me, it was just so different than what made me a fan in the first place. I never took it personally like some did -- In Flames is free to do whatever the hell they want. I just never bought into the "if you're a REAL fan, you'll swallow everything they feed you." I hung on for a long time, but when Siren Charms came out, that was really the point where I said "ok, I'm out." I would still check in on their social media from time to time and stuff like that, but 2014 is when I really stopped caring.
Lately, I've been listening to a lot of Whoracle and Colony and falling in love with those albums again. Man, they were really something special back then. Clayman too. Now, I feel like their place on the "The Metal Tour of the Year" was fitting. I feel like that's the legacy of In Flames, which sucks. They went from being originators, inspiring so many bands (like Lamb of God and Trivium), to being followers and the bands that they inspired taking the reins. If you told me in 2000 after they released Clayman that this is how things would go, I would've said you were an idiot. I know a lot of people love RTR-SOAPF -- and I like some of that stuff too, but it just never resonated with me the way the earlier stuff did. Siren Charms and Battles should've been an Anders/Bjorn side project under a completely different banner imo.
I've always felt STYE was the real turning point as far as IF's change in sound/direction was concerned. Reroute is different for sure, but the production plays a huge part in that. So many of the guitar leads and melodies are buried in the mix. Bring those further forward and the IF sound is still very much apparent. If Reroute was produced in the same way Clayman was I genuinely think it would have been received better. It's still a departure from Clayman but only in the sense it's more streamlined and simplified, and proper clean vocals were thrown in for the first time. Clayman and Colony both had a decent amount of keyboards as well, but the guitars were still obviously the focus so they didn't get as much attention as Reroute which cranked the synths up.
STYE has similar production issues but there isn't that much hidden beneath. The riffs and leads are far more basic and there's a lot of chugging going on. It's the first IF album that for me felt far more alt-metal than MDM, and where the past magic disappeared. I still like a lot of the songs on STYE but it isn't the same.
They rebounded well with CC but ASOP was a bit of a disaster in terms of production and vocals. For me ASOP is the worst Anders has ever sounded, even taking SC and Battles into account. His harsh vocals are just awful on ASOP and the singing isn't much better. It's a shame because there's some good instrumental stuff going on in that album but the guitar tone sucks and I can't stand Anders on that album.
SOAPF was the beginning of a third era, if you count 1994-2000 as the 'classic' era and 2002-2008 as the 'nu In Flames' era. Throughout the past two eras they were 100% metal, whether it was the type of metal you like or not. SOAPF began leaning towards a more rock/metal-orientated sound, particularly in terms of the production which was much wider than previous efforts. I really like SOAPF but I can understand why fans of their previous works would be turned off by how it sounds.
I don't understand why they followed up with SC and Battles. I just don't get it. I'm all for experimenting but I feel like both of those albums took things too far, and Siren Charms especially was the album that finally caused a lot of former fans to say fuck it and give up on the band entirely. SC would have been interesting as a side project, but as an In Flames album it sucks. Battles would have been shit no matter what.
ITM is a step in the right direction as far as a return to form is concerned but I think SC/Battles did so much damage that it might be too late now. Even fans who started listening around the CC/ASOP/SOAPF period may already be gone after hearing SC and/or Battles. The amount of traffic that dropped off from here after Siren Charms was very noticeable. The Battles thread had a lot less people participating and the ITM thread even more so.
I remember though that Fredrik Nordström said already on like Whoracle/Colony records he said the band wanted to do other stuff already then and was bored of the dual harmony guitar stuff but he persuaded them. I mean obviously they wouldn't have released STYE in 1999 if Fredrik didn't produce the album but still. I think they wanted to sway other directions way sooner than Clayman but didn't do it until they changed producer and studios.
I don't know where to post it so I might as well do it here. I accidentally stumbled upon a newer bootleg live of Square Nothing, and god did they fuck it up big time. Anders screwed up both second and final chorus with timing. Other than Anders, the band actually did it justice, even Bjorn did a good job with the solo, and he usually tends to botch up older leads a lot.
Really underrated track.
Edit: Well, from 2015... I guess that's still somewhat recent for a Clayman track.
Well, at least they aren't rerecording Square Nothing. They'd throw in a bunch of stupid synths and Anders would probably try to sing the first half with dat autotune. They'd ruin it. The original song is one of the best tracks on Clayman. I love how it builds up during the first half of the song and then just explodes during the second half. The melodies are incredible as well.
It's funny how whenever Anders lyrics being shit nowadays are brought up people tend to reply with "what do you want him to be talking about space and wolves and shit lmao" - no, I have no problem with him being introspective, but I want awesome lyrics like Square Nothing, not bullshit like Delight and Angers or Drained. Square Nothing's lyrics are amazing. It's a shame Anders stopped putting this kind of effort into his lyrical content as it makes what is already a great song even better.
I don't hate SOAPF. I just don't love it. There are some really good songs on there that still get some play for me. A New Dawn and Ropes specifically. I'd say I like it more than ASOP even.
Yeah, I figured that was the case. I never thought their change came out of thin air. I just never understood why Anders didn't use Passenger or something else entirely for that outlet. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with the fact that In Flames was decently established as a name. I think that's just me being selfish though. Jesper has been pretty clear that he didn't like the direction the band was going, but I wonder why he never said anything. As it's longest tenured member, his influence surely would have gone a long way. Maybe he was ok with the switch in styles around 2002 and wasn't bothered by it until later, who knows? Daniel and Peter seemed like they were just along for the ride and didn't care either way. But they also both left, so that could be a sign as well. Peter was clearly still into playing music as he joined Cyhra for a while.
Great, great song. The official video is my top 5 of all time, no question.
That's what the band has been for a while now, so...
I listen (and still enjoy) bands that drastically changed their sound over time as well as the bands that stay true to their "roots". It really doesn't matter as long as the material is good. People grow up, tastes adjust/change, sure, but I must say - it takes a really big effort to undo one's own legacy like In Flames did. Well, at least according to me, but I only been a fan for 20+ years, so YMMV.