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Discussion in 'Backline' started by InAbsentia_, Aug 4, 2010.
this thread is to long for me to read. Close please...
Sorry Ola. It was pretty constructive and friendly until Mr. Guru arrived.
Yes. Please close it. For posterity.
You can go there (guitarampmodeling.com) and read the saucy details in full glory if that's your thing but I found the idea that a new company making quite a decent amount of money would get so butthurt as to demean a person that made free stuff for anyone on a public forum because he demanded credit for his work, and from the top at that. I just think that guy (Fractal Audio) is bad people but as I said I may be wrong.
All the guy making the impulse asked for was to be credited, and when they finally decided to do it, they had to bitch about it on their forums. Really lame and childish.
Fractal audio apologized and removed it immediately when the owner asked. But you blame the company for what the users said?
You don't think constant MAJOR upgrades including new amps, drives, reworked amps/algorithms, immediate help with faulting models that might lead to a new one being sent or getting repairparts for free even though it may not be the models fault and more is not good costumer service?
if you want to get it just go for it man dont listen to anyone , you know how i feel about tubes in a previous thread.....if i had cash i would go with the engl e530 with impulses $cheap$ and beautiful sounding comparing to the axe fx
That's hardly how the story goes, it got pretty dirty and it wasn't the users doing the talking but the head guy who designed the unit. But whatever I'm not out to convince anyone. Lotsa people have great things to say about Randall Smith when they read a Mesa brochure. I was one of them too once upon a time
I don't frankly care much for "customer service". Sounds pretty corporate to me honestly. I'm a bottom-feeder anyways. My heroes are guys like Ronald Passion and Onqel, Lepou, the AcmeBarGig dude, Kjaerhus, and all the legions of guys out there making impulses and effects for nothing, not even a "you must say thank you". And Justin Frankel. He makes a killer product for a killer price. Now that's a programmer.
Who cares if it's a fad?... I'll enjoy playing with mine while I'm happy with it. Meanwhile this discussion will last forever and ever...
I just got done playing the e530 with guitarhack impulses. I love putting the engl through a cab and miking it up but it certainly can do the business with those impulses.
Personally I don't own one, but I don't see it being a fad. I do own the GSP1101 and sadly I see it going by the wayside.
I think the key is continued support. All the old amps have continued support by techs and such all around the world. If a '67 Bassman goes belly up, a Fender Authorized Repair shop will take it in, get you parts and fix it right up for you. And in fact it will probably cost you less than fixing many newer amps with hard to find parts. And any amp tech worth their salt should be able to fix it, mod it, unmod it, etc. Most amp techs that make a living doing repair are probably authorized repair centers for Fender, Mesa, Marshall, Loud Technologies, US Music, etc. already.
The things the AxeFX did right are top of the line converters and loads of processing power with room to grow. Based on their updates and new amp models, their OS seems to be VERY flexible. This is great as long as the algorithms don't outgrow the hardware.
I think of comparable musical technology as the UAD cards. They are still going strong. Even with all "my 8 core macs are faster." The Analog Devices SHARC chip is pretty incredible and very DSP optimized. The SHARC is also in the Axe-FX as well as high-end Analog Device based analog and ADDA.
So far Fractal has been VERY good about offering updates and expanding on the software. The hardware doesn't need to change the that much (well a few limitations that people have listed). But until it outgrows the available processing and memory, it could be around for a while. Not to mention if they did things right, they could offer upgradeable parts for a cheaper price, much like modern PC's.
So as long as support stays around, I don't see them being a fad. POD's still sell like crazy, and the algorithm's haven't changed. But Line6 made a smart move with the model packs.
The AxeFX with improvements and new models and better models, that is pretty awesome. Sonically I agree Impulses are the weakness and its strength compared to other modelers. When the next speaker modeling technology comes out, who is to say the AxeFX won't be able to support it? It very well might be able to, and with continued support it could happen.
I do wish the price was lower, at $2k you can buy one hell of a tube amp. I am sure someday I will get one, need to find the money and not buy Mic Pres, mics, converters, more tube amps, etc.
The GSP1101 to me has been huge with the beta firmware essentially doing the same thing. And the developer thinks he can do custom impulses. But with that stopping here soon, I see it drying up quickly. With no official Digitech support, they are shooting themselves in the foot. But talking to their rogue developer, the OS and hardware seems fairly limited, so that is an additional weakness as well.
bought the axe ulta march 2010 - couldnt live without it,
sold my diezel for that thing.
i got amazing sounds out of this thing - for live its (to me) a better solution than an actual amp. i saw meshuggah live and they had the best liive tone i have ever heard (btw. i did foh for 10 years, so i have heard tons of amps live)
foor my band its perfect, i have an organ sound, violin and acoustic guitar AND play in stereo live...
here is a band i used the axe on. i love it. 5150 like tone.
i will do smoe tests axe fx engl simulatoin into a invader poweramp > orange > audix i5 vs invader (full amp) > orange > audix i5 . well see how you guys like it.
Notice the word temporary in that definition. That's quite important. 5150+Mesa OS is not a 'fad' as it's never been temporary and has been a combo going on for decades.
I can't believe all the arguing about whether something is a fad or not..
No one gets to say whether the enthusiasm for something is warranted or not, all you have is an individual perspective and opinion, which is completely irrelevant to anything except the choices YOU make (ie whether a product, evolution or innovation is suitable for YOU)
Why are most so obsessed with validating their opinion by demanding the whole world agrees with them?
There's even a comment in here dissing drew cause no ones backing him up? maybe he's NOT a pussy who only can speaks only his mind when he knows the pack agrees with him?
The question of this thread is basically "hey all these people really like this thing, so should I like it? or are they just idiots"
Ironically that's pretty much the basis for a fad mentality..
Anyway, no one will agree with me so I must be wrong as wrong can be.
lick my sack
You've missed the target by such a margin that I'm afraid coming back from this is impossible. No one is 'dissing' the Axe-Fx's potential, and all of us agree that it's a very good piece of equipment, but so was the Digitech RP150 back in they day.
The point being pushed here isn't that the Axe-Fx sucks, it's being marketed as the most revolutionary product to ever bless the guitar processor market. I'm just wondering how true that is. There are legions willing to defend this opinion on every forum imaginable and their favourite 'rig' is a VHT 2/90/2 with an Axe-FX and the obligatory 7-string with BKP's.
In reality, the Axe-FX is just a new thing that'll fade to a distant memory within a couple of years and it'll be worth 1/20th of the price it is now when some other company releases a non-overpriced rape-your-customers version of the same thing. My bet is on Line 6.
Is it really? or is the market itself just really enthusiastic about it?
Is it not at the leading edge of it's field?
Well, have a look at the Fractal website yourself and draw your own conclusions. Enthusiasm also plays a role, definitely, but that's where the 'fad' thing comes into play. That's how they function. They explode, and then explode exponentially downwards after a while. The Axe-FX will without a doubt experience such an end, unfortunately.
It might be at the leading edge, but it isn't very far from the grasp of Pod Farm or the free ampsims and impulses available on this very site (impulses which fractal loves to steal on occasion for their glorious product, if I might add) - these options cost between $0-100. For a thing that costs twenty times as much as the other, you'd expect it to create the mother of all tones - when infact, it doesn't.
I have - owned one for a bit 18 months ago. I realize there have been updates to it since, and I am tempted to get another one - however...
While it feels like a real amp, and while it sounds/feels awesome through a poweramp/cabinet, I'm not sure it sounds better than my 5150, a Recto, a 5150III, etc...
Recorded, however, I still find the tones to be lacking. We need speaker movement, period - I'd use it for scratch tracks, but I'd always end up reamping with a real setup. I'm not sure if that setup would be an AxeFX + poweramp + cabinet, or a real amp + cab. Seeing that my 5150 + Mesa 4x12 cost me less than even the AxeFX standard, and in all likeliness sounds better than the AxeFX + poweramp + cab setup, I'm inclined to just use my PODxt Pro for scratch tracks and reamp with my rig.
How's your 5150 do for Recto tones? Mark tones? Marshall tones? Fender tones? ENGL tones?
^^^ It doesn't do recto/ mark etc. It does THE 5150 tone. That's what you're missing. The axe aims to be other amps. But those amps ARE those amps. They are used FOR their own tone... shit :S
It comes down to ease of use etc in the right situation. The AXE-FX live, would be the most efficient weapon. No micing a real cab, no stage bleed etc, consistensy every night. On the other hand, you have a lot of guys micing an AXE-FX + Poweramp +Cab live too... Which IMO defeats the prupose. It's all good and fine if you're using a million different tones. But when you are literally just using it for clean/ distortion/ lead + effect... it's pointless. So it's all about use.
That being said, all these guys using the AXE, the pro's etc. Vai. Broderick. Petrucci and so on. I'd love to see even ONE of them use it for a studio album. If it WAS that amazing, they would do it, no amount of "Tubez r the betterer" would matter if the AXE was that good. But it's not. And it shouldn't be considered that way. It's a fantastic live tool and effects processor. But when you're in the studio recording etc, the real version mic'd is going to sound better. No amount of algorithms and simulation will ever = the way real tubes react. It's not because tubes are perfect. It's because they are IMPERFECT that they sound so great. You can't program imperfection. You can maybe simulate some aspect/ static aspect of the amp. But the way every part of a real amp reacts to it's own parts is why it sounds so pleasing. It's the variation that occurs at every second in every part of the analogue parts that you can't recreate.
And again... That's not a bad thing! The AXE is great live, handy, portable and the consistensy is great. In the studio, it's not better than a tube amp. That's it :S
I've yet to hear someone mic up the AxeFX through a real poweramp/cab and emulate those tones, so I can ask the same thing - I've heard it do lots of stuff DI'd decently well (clean, lead, and layered tones), but nothing Recto/Mark/Marshall/ENGL. Direct, it just sounds like the AxeFX. Nobody's ball'd up and mic'd it, which will be the real test for me and is why I'm still mildly interested in them - I'd be fine with better-than-POD tones for tracking and then reamping through the Axe/real poweramp to get a lot of very good tones, but nobodies done it yet and nobody's willing to let me borrow theres to try.
I don't see why digital and analogue can't co-exist in harmony.
Some of my favourite guitar sounds ever have been the result of digital distortions and effects, some of my favourite tones are pure, organic, analogue goodness.
They both have their place. There are a few guys who have a feeling to their playing where the axe-fx just fits them like a glove (this forum's very own Sora01 is the first that springs to mind, and the Cynic guys when I saw them live had a guitar tone that was so liquid and smooth I felt like I was swimming.)
As long as the sound fits the player and the player fits the sound, then that's what matters, right?