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Islam

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Gargamel Bojangles, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. Gargamel Bojangles

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    In the wake of all these terrorist attacks worldwide, Islam has become a hot topic. I'm not really all that educated on Islam. I've been told that the Quran is similar to the Bible only Islam views Jesus Christ is a prophet and not as the Messiah as Christians do. I know there are many different sects of Islam, all having very different philosophies. I was recently kicked out of a Facebook group run by a white Muslim. I'm told that his particular set of Islam is one commonly taught in prisons. It teaches racism and hatred and self hate if you are a white man. I know during the civil rights movement there was a sect of Islam that was all about uplifting the black community. I frequent a Christian chat and the majority opinion and there is that Islam is a political agenda bent on world domination. I believe there are over a billion Muslims worldwide and I highly doubt that all of them are bad and evil... what are your opinions on this.?

    P.S.....serious discussion only. Trolls will be ignored
     
  2. Counterweight

    Counterweight New Metal Member

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    You're correct that the bible and the Quran are similar in many aspects, however they differ in several very significant ways.

    When we look at the violence in the Abrahamic texts, we can see that the way in which it is presented differs from the quran to the bible. In the bible, much of the violence is descriptive, and deals with threats of what will happen to one once they die if they fail to live life in accordance to how God decreed. In other words the violence and suffering threatened usually occurs posr-death and is carried out by God. Where the islamic scripture differs is that in many cases the God of the quran urges his followerers to carry out the violence against nonbelievers on his behalf. Indeed, this is where the notions of jihadism, martydom and paradise come from. That is, the idea of dying for your religion will grant you paradise.
     
  3. Counterweight

    Counterweight New Metal Member

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    The second major difference lies in the characters of the respective prophets. Where Jesus could be described as basically being a hippy (save perhaps for one particular verse), Muhammed was a warrior and a conquerer, and he got up to all the not so niceties of most historical conquerers.

    Thirdly, Christianity has endured an enlightenment period, which led to secualrism and the value of science and reason. The quran, however, remains unchanged and islamic societies have been muh more reluctant to embrace science.

    As for your final point, if you would like to know more about the attitudes of muslims's towards homosexuals, women, apostates, stoning, terrorism and sharia law, then I urge you to seek the PEW research on the topic. PEW is a leading global attitudes centre. A word of warning, however, don't read it at night as you might not sleep well.
     
  4. Symbolic85

    Symbolic85 New Metal Member

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    I agree with counterweight. very informative answer there, wow!
    I suggest checking Nile's song about ISIS - "call to destruction". sums things pretty well. From my understanding the point of christianity and judaism (as of now) is to wait for the messiah. That is why for example, that orthodox jewish people say it is wrong to build a new grand temple in jerusalem(yes you read that right). With islam it is different. The quran calls to bring "salvation" actively, and to destroy cultures and religions that defy islam. I've also read the PEW research and yes it is bad. The problem that it the moderates are sometimes worse than extremists because they are hypocrites who are not willing to change sentences in their book, and because the book is holy, there is no escape. It's an endless loop.
     
  5. Yetzirah

    Yetzirah New Metal Member

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    Israel is the entire contradiction of such an idea as prophecy. Orthodox Jewish people in most cases say the validity of the state of israel is unquestionable while it was built under the political ideology that it was warranted by prophecy in the bible-- So much for waiting eh? The bottom line is that all religions are invalid--- Again, it's another SERIOUS structural flaw to say Christians WAIT for the messiah. Ever hear the expression "Jesus IS Risen" ? They speak from the perspective that the messiah has already come and is HERE.. Btw, Jesus pronounced backwards sounds like Sausage.
     
  6. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    What annoys me the most when people talk about Islam is their literal interpretation of the text and taking things out of context, and you'll see many other Muslims complaining about the same thing.

    For instance, there's a verse that urges Muslims to kill all the non-believers wherever they are. Taken on its own, that sounds pretty bad, right? In fact, many people have used this verse to incriminate the religion as being violent and hate-mongering. However, it's a completely different story when you actually use context. After a basic study, it would be apparent that the verse was encouraging the Muslims to finally fight back after years of persecution, since they were previously instructed to only defend themselves and never go on the offensive even as they were losing ground and men. Eventually, after establishing their own base in a nearby city and rallying, the Muslims decided to attack the "HQ" of their former persecutors, Mecca. More context, the leadership of the Quresh people of Mecca were the main antagonists of Islam, and you can think of them like the Catholic ruling class in Europe persecuting the Protestants in 16th century Europe. The siege ended with an almost unconditional surrender by Quresh (one column decided to fight back and 12 of them were killed during skirmishes). Not only did the Muslims not kill the Quresh, they accepted them amongst their ranks. And that was under the leadership of the Prophet himself.

    I don't want to sound preachy or overly zealous, but if the Prophet of the religion himself did not follow the "kill the non-believers wherever you find them" verse literally and out of context, that should say something. Especially against the same people that killed many of his friends followers and allies, without counting the persecution he himself suffered.

    The Quran is not a series of unrelated sentences and verses. It has a narrative, told within context.
     
  7. CASSETTEISGOD

    CASSETTEISGOD Active Member

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    The problem isn't non-Muslims taking violent passages out of context, the problem is Muslims that take it out of context, take it literally and then commit all kinds of atrocities as a result.
     
  8. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    No, I think both of these are a serious problem. One leads to intense discrimination and racism, the other leads to mindless violence. It's a vicious circle that both parties are promoting.
     
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  9. CASSETTEISGOD

    CASSETTEISGOD Active Member

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    I disagree, one is just an element of religious criticism, the other is horrific violence and death.
     
  10. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    I could easily argue how repression and racism were the main cause of the Paris attacks (for example). I could also argue how ISIS does not persuade using religion to recruit but instead appeals to impressionable youth who are tired of discrimination, terrible standards of life and injustice in general. They use the evil that is plaguing the Middle-East to further their own devlisih agenda. 90% of the time, religion is just a front for violence and never its true motive, whether perpetrators of said religion are aware of it or not.

    However, I don't reckon either of us will change their mind, so I won't :p
     
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  11. CASSETTEISGOD

    CASSETTEISGOD Active Member

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    I think I'll take the religious terrorists words over yours, they know why they do what they do and they say it quite plainly for all to hear.
    Just like when a Christian attacks an abortion clinic, if they say they did it because of their religious beliefs I'd take their word over an apologist.

    Call me weird, I'm just like that.

    I find this to be an especially poor excuse, but one that many attempt to pass off.
     
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  12. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    I wouldn't call you weird, but, with all due respect, I would call your reasoning a little shallow for taking everything at face value.

    Just to clarify, a Christian attacking an abortion clinic is not the same as an transcontinental organisation whose goal is to turn into a state of regional power. That's why I specifically said that most, not all, of religious violence can be attributed to non-religious motivations.
     
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  13. Mister Pink

    Mister Pink New Metal Member

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    The issue with Islam and the Quran is that you can see the values of the Quran practiced in Muslim-majority countries such as a man having power over a woman, death to apostates and the dozens of verses that are violent in nature. People often argue that there's violence in the Bible but the Bible has been reformed, criticized, lampooned and in the west we're certainly more progressive, separating church from state for the most part, we're wealthy and often less religious in European nations and the US and have a high percentage of population with 3rd level education.

    In countries that have a majority in favour of Sharia Law and want Islam politically to govern their country, you'll find lack of wealth, poor education and quality of life that doesn't rank high on the world scale. So I don't really buy the false of equivalence of saying the Bible has violent verses etc.

    Also, criticism of Islamic ideology is met with fierce backlash including death and murder and apologists using phrases such as Islamophobia which I believe is just a cheap way to try shut down discourse, name call and point the finger which is detrimental open discourse in society. Imagine the same level of scrutiny went to anyone else critical of Scientology, Catholicism or Mormanism. Imagine being accused of being Scientolgiphobic or other such nonsense because you were critical of Scientology. It's absurd.
     

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