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Islam

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Gargamel Bojangles, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. Gargamel Bojangles

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    In the wake of all these terrorist attacks worldwide, Islam has become a hot topic. I'm not really all that educated on Islam. I've been told that the Quran is similar to the Bible only Islam views Jesus Christ is a prophet and not as the Messiah as Christians do. I know there are many different sects of Islam, all having very different philosophies. I was recently kicked out of a Facebook group run by a white Muslim. I'm told that his particular set of Islam is one commonly taught in prisons. It teaches racism and hatred and self hate if you are a white man. I know during the civil rights movement there was a sect of Islam that was all about uplifting the black community. I frequent a Christian chat and the majority opinion and there is that Islam is a political agenda bent on world domination. I believe there are over a billion Muslims worldwide and I highly doubt that all of them are bad and evil... what are your opinions on this.?

    P.S.....serious discussion only. Trolls will be ignored
     
  2. Counterweight

    Counterweight New Metal Member

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    You're correct that the bible and the Quran are similar in many aspects, however they differ in several very significant ways.

    When we look at the violence in the Abrahamic texts, we can see that the way in which it is presented differs from the quran to the bible. In the bible, much of the violence is descriptive, and deals with threats of what will happen to one once they die if they fail to live life in accordance to how God decreed. In other words the violence and suffering threatened usually occurs posr-death and is carried out by God. Where the islamic scripture differs is that in many cases the God of the quran urges his followerers to carry out the violence against nonbelievers on his behalf. Indeed, this is where the notions of jihadism, martydom and paradise come from. That is, the idea of dying for your religion will grant you paradise.
     
  3. Counterweight

    Counterweight New Metal Member

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    The second major difference lies in the characters of the respective prophets. Where Jesus could be described as basically being a hippy (save perhaps for one particular verse), Muhammed was a warrior and a conquerer, and he got up to all the not so niceties of most historical conquerers.

    Thirdly, Christianity has endured an enlightenment period, which led to secualrism and the value of science and reason. The quran, however, remains unchanged and islamic societies have been muh more reluctant to embrace science.

    As for your final point, if you would like to know more about the attitudes of muslims's towards homosexuals, women, apostates, stoning, terrorism and sharia law, then I urge you to seek the PEW research on the topic. PEW is a leading global attitudes centre. A word of warning, however, don't read it at night as you might not sleep well.
     
  4. Symbolic85

    Symbolic85 New Metal Member

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    I agree with counterweight. very informative answer there, wow!
    I suggest checking Nile's song about ISIS - "call to destruction". sums things pretty well. From my understanding the point of christianity and judaism (as of now) is to wait for the messiah. That is why for example, that orthodox jewish people say it is wrong to build a new grand temple in jerusalem(yes you read that right). With islam it is different. The quran calls to bring "salvation" actively, and to destroy cultures and religions that defy islam. I've also read the PEW research and yes it is bad. The problem that it the moderates are sometimes worse than extremists because they are hypocrites who are not willing to change sentences in their book, and because the book is holy, there is no escape. It's an endless loop.
     
  5. Yetzirah

    Yetzirah New Metal Member

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    Israel is the entire contradiction of such an idea as prophecy. Orthodox Jewish people in most cases say the validity of the state of israel is unquestionable while it was built under the political ideology that it was warranted by prophecy in the bible-- So much for waiting eh? The bottom line is that all religions are invalid--- Again, it's another SERIOUS structural flaw to say Christians WAIT for the messiah. Ever hear the expression "Jesus IS Risen" ? They speak from the perspective that the messiah has already come and is HERE.. Btw, Jesus pronounced backwards sounds like Sausage.
     
  6. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    What annoys me the most when people talk about Islam is their literal interpretation of the text and taking things out of context, and you'll see many other Muslims complaining about the same thing.

    For instance, there's a verse that urges Muslims to kill all the non-believers wherever they are. Taken on its own, that sounds pretty bad, right? In fact, many people have used this verse to incriminate the religion as being violent and hate-mongering. However, it's a completely different story when you actually use context. After a basic study, it would be apparent that the verse was encouraging the Muslims to finally fight back after years of persecution, since they were previously instructed to only defend themselves and never go on the offensive even as they were losing ground and men. Eventually, after establishing their own base in a nearby city and rallying, the Muslims decided to attack the "HQ" of their former persecutors, Mecca. More context, the leadership of the Quresh people of Mecca were the main antagonists of Islam, and you can think of them like the Catholic ruling class in Europe persecuting the Protestants in 16th century Europe. The siege ended with an almost unconditional surrender by Quresh (one column decided to fight back and 12 of them were killed during skirmishes). Not only did the Muslims not kill the Quresh, they accepted them amongst their ranks. And that was under the leadership of the Prophet himself.

    I don't want to sound preachy or overly zealous, but if the Prophet of the religion himself did not follow the "kill the non-believers wherever you find them" verse literally and out of context, that should say something. Especially against the same people that killed many of his friends followers and allies, without counting the persecution he himself suffered.

    The Quran is not a series of unrelated sentences and verses. It has a narrative, told within context.
     
  7. CiG

    CiG Salute of the Jugger

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    The problem isn't non-Muslims taking violent passages out of context, the problem is Muslims that take it out of context, take it literally and then commit all kinds of atrocities as a result.
     
  8. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    No, I think both of these are a serious problem. One leads to intense discrimination and racism, the other leads to mindless violence. It's a vicious circle that both parties are promoting.
     
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  9. CiG

    CiG Salute of the Jugger

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    I disagree, one is just an element of religious criticism, the other is horrific violence and death.
     
  10. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    I could easily argue how repression and racism were the main cause of the Paris attacks (for example). I could also argue how ISIS does not persuade using religion to recruit but instead appeals to impressionable youth who are tired of discrimination, terrible standards of life and injustice in general. They use the evil that is plaguing the Middle-East to further their own devlisih agenda. 90% of the time, religion is just a front for violence and never its true motive, whether perpetrators of said religion are aware of it or not.

    However, I don't reckon either of us will change their mind, so I won't :p
     
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  11. CiG

    CiG Salute of the Jugger

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    I think I'll take the religious terrorists words over yours, they know why they do what they do and they say it quite plainly for all to hear.
    Just like when a Christian attacks an abortion clinic, if they say they did it because of their religious beliefs I'd take their word over an apologist.

    Call me weird, I'm just like that.

    I find this to be an especially poor excuse, but one that many attempt to pass off.
     
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  12. Plutonium

    Plutonium New Metal Member

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    I wouldn't call you weird, but, with all due respect, I would call your reasoning a little shallow for taking everything at face value.

    Just to clarify, a Christian attacking an abortion clinic is not the same as an transcontinental organisation whose goal is to turn into a state of regional power. That's why I specifically said that most, not all, of religious violence can be attributed to non-religious motivations.
     
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  13. Mister Pink

    Mister Pink New Metal Member

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    The issue with Islam and the Quran is that you can see the values of the Quran practiced in Muslim-majority countries such as a man having power over a woman, death to apostates and the dozens of verses that are violent in nature. People often argue that there's violence in the Bible but the Bible has been reformed, criticized, lampooned and in the west we're certainly more progressive, separating church from state for the most part, we're wealthy and often less religious in European nations and the US and have a high percentage of population with 3rd level education.

    In countries that have a majority in favour of Sharia Law and want Islam politically to govern their country, you'll find lack of wealth, poor education and quality of life that doesn't rank high on the world scale. So I don't really buy the false of equivalence of saying the Bible has violent verses etc.

    Also, criticism of Islamic ideology is met with fierce backlash including death and murder and apologists using phrases such as Islamophobia which I believe is just a cheap way to try shut down discourse, name call and point the finger which is detrimental open discourse in society. Imagine the same level of scrutiny went to anyone else critical of Scientology, Catholicism or Mormanism. Imagine being accused of being Scientolgiphobic or other such nonsense because you were critical of Scientology. It's absurd.
     
  14. FEZZILLA

    FEZZILLA Member

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    Don't get me started on Islam :tickled::rofl:

    I took some time out of my life and bought out the Islamic bookstores. I have everything that matters. I even have a database online in which I used to debate liberals who want to suffer this country to the ills of Islamic fascism. Too many people want to defend Islam and call it a religion of peace. But have these people ever read these muslim books before? Whether you are studying the Qur'an or the Sunnah, you will not escape the fact that Islam is a totalitarian death cult. If people in this country all understood Islam and knew it was a death cult obsessed with death and dying, and everybody in this country would stand united against this death cult, there is no way in hell Islamic jihadists could ever hope to win our nation. But this political correctness is killing us and allowing terrorists freedom into our nation to spread their evil ideology. I really wish people would wise up to this and stop following political correctness.
     
  15. FEZZILLA

    FEZZILLA Member

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    First of all, the Qur'an is not the Bible of Islam. Islam has many bibles, though the Qur'an is the most important book of Islam.

    The Qur'an makes up 16% of the Islamic Canon of Scripture. The Sunnah makes up 84% of the Islamic Canon of Scripture. The Sunnah is the Sirah and Hadith. The Sirah is the biography of Muhammad (about his life and events which make up the background of the Qur'an). The Hadith consists of the traditions of Muhammad (what he said and did). Thus muslims are to follow both the Qur'an and Sunnah as it commands in the Qur'an,


    Noble Qur'an 3:31,

    This post will be long but if you want to understand Islam you have to understand its teachings and why terrorism is a major part of the Islamic faith. I've read many posts here which the posters assume their views are correct but they are far from being true. Islam is not an extension of Judaism or Christian. The wars of the Jews in the Bible are all fought for tiny little Israel and the Jews are not out to conquer any other nation outside the boundaries of Israel. But Islam has no such boundary and muslims are taught to believe they have inherited all nations. But they are taught more than that. The Qur'an and Sunnah teaches muslims to exterminate all non-muslims in the world until there is no more unbelief and Islam is all that remains. But it doesn't end there either. Muslims are allowed to work the punishing hand of Allah. They carry out Allah's punishing hand which includes destroy the earth and all life therein. So they are taught to conquer the world for Allah and then once its conquered, they fight amongst each other until the earth and all life is destroyed. You see, in Islam, there is no respect for earth or life. There is no new earth like there is in Judaism and Christianity when God restores the earth to its originally created beauty. This earth meanings nothing in Islamic doctrine. So it might be at least beneficial to first see Allah's view of the world in contrast to John 3:16 in the Gospels:

    Al-Adab Al-Mufrad of Imam Bukhari, Chapter 436, Hadith 962,

    The next quotation comes from the Qur'an and its deals with wiping out all non-muslims in the world.

    Noble Qur'an 2:193, Madinah Period
    Tafsir is the exegesis of the Qur'an, the interpretations of the meanings. Not just anyone is allowed to interpret the Qur'an in Islam. Special tafsir scholars do all that. I quote only from the classical tafsir scholars as they carry more authority. So here is the tafsir to Qur'an 2:193,

    Tafsir Al-Qurtubi,

    Tafsir Al-Jalalayn (Aisha Bewley translation):

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir,

    As you can see, the goal of Islam is to wipe out all unbelievers worldwide. Muhammad is the Sunnah and everything he did is considered the words and actions of the perfect human being. Muslims must follow Muhammad in all things, at all times, and in all places. Here is how important jihad is in Islam, being part of the faith:

    Bukhari, Vol.1, Book 2, Chapter 26, Hadith number 36,


    Now moving on to Muhammad being this social justice warrior for the left. Muhammad did not care about black people. Muhammad himself was a white skinhead who killed Jews and owned black slaves. This is how Muhammad is described in the Sunnah.

    Sahih Bukhari, Vol.1, Book 3 (The Book of Knowledge), hadith 63,

    Sahih Muslim, Vol.6, Book 43, Chapter 28, hadith 6071

    Sahih Muslim 2343 a - Book 43, Hadith 139

    There are many ahadith that describe Muhammad's whiteness. But what did Muhammad think about black people?


    Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol.9, Book 93, Chapter 4. hadith 7142,

    So now we know where the term raisin head came from. Muhammad seems to place black people at the lowest statue of Islam.

    Sunan An-Nasa'i, Vol.5, Book 44, Chapter 66, hadith 4625

    Black people share the same pedigree as animals. There are more ahadith about Muhammad owning slaves, but maybe Muhammad has an even more negative view on Satan. Lets see if Satan is at least lower than a black man status in Islam.

    Ibn Ishaq "The life of Muhammad" (The Sira), p.243,

    Nope. Muhammad has black people at the same status as Satan, for Satan looks like a black man according to Muhammad! So if you are one of those Islam defenders you are no social justice warrior. You are the ultimate uncle Tom.

    Muhammad murdered Jews and commands his followers to wipe out all the Jews:


    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Book 56, Chapter 94, Hadith 2925,

    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Book 56, Hadith 2926,

    Muhammad and his companions lived like the Manson family on steroids. We're talking about an entire army of complete psychopaths. Here are more descriptions of Muhammad's character. But you might want to click the link and listen to Helter Skelter while reading all this


    The Expeditions: An Early Biography of Muhammad. Pages 33, 39. The Expedition of Hudaybiyah:

    Page 33,

    Page 39,

    The next insane quote comes from the beloved Ash Shifa which is one of the most important books of the Sunnah, having a special status of its own.

    Ash Shifa (Aisha Bewley translation):

    Part 4, Chapter 1, Section 1, p.376

    Part 4, Chapter 1, Section 2, p.376

    Section 2, continued..pp.378-379

    Part Four, Chapter 1, Section 5, p.387,

    And this is what liberals call the religion of peace? Its no religion at all. Islam is a political ideology...a totalitarian death cult obsessed with death and dying. Isis lived the Sunnah of Muhammad and followed the sharia better than all other muslim nations. Isis and other terrorist organizations are 100% Islamic! That is true Islam that Isis practice. And throwing homosexuals off of roof tops is part of that practice. So liberals who defend Islam are only defending mass murder, which explains why liberalism is dying out and being rapidly replaced by the more intelligent Trump-conservatives who actually understand the issues such as Islam. And as for Islamic emigration? Well, I have much to post on that to. So I might as well post it all here.

    One of the most violent verses in the Qur'an is 6:158 as it deals with us westerners. Here is the verse with tafsir from Ibn Kathir who is also Islam's top tribulation scholar:

    Noble Qur'an 6:158,

    This hadith goes with Qur'an 6:158,

    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.6, Book 65, hadith 4635,


    More tafsir on Qur'an 6:158 as it relates to Islamic emigration in the west.


    From the book: The Signs Before The Day Of Judgement, Ibn Kathir, pp.86,87

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Vol.1,

    So this is saying that when the muslims conquer Europe, they will not allow for repentance and will slaughter everyone who is not a true follower of Muhammad.

    Noble Qur'an 9:52,

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

    Tafsir al-Jalalayn (Feras Hamza translation):


    To further prove my point I will now cite from Islamic Jurisprudence which is the sharia. The sharia is Islamic law which comes from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

    Islamic Jurisprudence (Fiqh):

    Provisions Of The Afterlife: Which Lie Within Prophetic Guidance (translation by Ismail Abdus Salaam), pp.260-263,

    Provisions Of The Afterlife, p.286,

    Reliance of the Traveller [the book of Islamic sacred law (the sharia)],

    Muhammad used emigration to invade other nations and tribes.

    The last lesson of Islam is a twofold lesson which first deals with how musliims are the punishing hand of Allah. They can kill you and me and then say Allah killed you and me and they did not do it. Muslims are allowed to use nuclear weapons against their enemy as the Qur'an has authorized the use of nuclear weapons (yes, the Qur'an was updated by Muhsin Khan to fit modern warfare. The Muhsin Khan Noble Qur'an has the highest rank among translations and the best selling Qur'an on the market today. The Muhsin Khan was approved by the University of Medina and the king of Saudi Arabia. A Qur'an cannot receive a higher mark of approval.

    Qur'an 2:193 commands the death of all disbelievers worldwide. But can we find a command in the Qur'an to use nukes against disbelievers?

    Noble Qur'an 8:60,

    Yes, the Muhsin Khan does say tanks, planes, missiles, artillery. This is not a joke. I have quite a few Qur'ans in my library and many copies of the Muhsin Khan, including what I believe was the 1993/94 edition that was used to plan 9-11. That is a hard Qur'an to find and it came to me completely by accident. After this section I will post the passage used to plot the 9-11 attacks.

    Muslims work the punishing hand of Allah:

    Noble Qur'an 8:17,

    Now remember this is from Surah 8 in which we found the authorized use of nuclear missiles. If 8:60 can be modified to fit modern warfare then so can 8:17 of the same surah. An updated reading would go along with 8:60 and read like this:

    Noble Qur'an 9:14,

    Noble Qur'an 9:52,

    So now that we know muslims are the punishing hand of Allah, as the We in the Qur'an is, in reality, Muhammad and his companions. Allah is nothing more than the sock puppet of Muhammad. Now lets look at how these allahs deal with all life on earth.


    Allah Destroys All Life On Earth:

    Noble Qur'an 18:7-8,

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir,

    Noble Qur'an 38:15,

    Noble Qur'an 55:26-27,

    And only Allah's face remains on earth. That would be the face of death and it might look like this:

    Zombie-Earth.jpg

    Or maybe Allah's face looks like this:


    face-on-mars.jpg

    Satan's goal is to destroy mankind utterly. Since the Qur'an does bear the actual spiritual fingerprint of Lucifer, and does fulfill Rev.13:18 perfectly, we know that Islam is Satan's counterfeit religion of choice. Here is the state of the earth as it is seen in Revelation:

    Revelation 11:18,




    Islam stands in complete contrast to the Holy Bible.

    Now for a bonus to those who read all this so far I will supply the passage used to plan out the 9-11 attack and then explain it. But first understand that the Qur'an is not a book of prophecy. If you ever tried to harmonize the prophecies you'd realize it can't be done. That's because the Qur'an is a human book with human ideas and human ideas contradict. But these Signs in the Qur'an are military signals and when you accept this explanation then you have solved Islam. Once Islam is solved it all makes sense. But if you believe Islam is Divine revelation then you'll never be able to explain anything you read in the tribulation. The Major Signs are good to know because at least they can vaguely be explained and in a somewhat acceptable chronological order. So here is the passage that planned and plotted out 9-11,


    Noble Qur'an 44:9-11,

    x720-EZo.jpg

    Ibn Kathir, "Book of the End: Great Trials & Tribulations," pp.163-164,

    The first Major Sign is the sun setting in the west. That is Islamic emigration and that has been going on for a long time...long enough for muslims to be trained as airline pilots.

    The second Major Sign is the smoke. This is a sign used to signal the final caliphate through the 9-11 attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. The smoke is muslims attacking. These two military signals have already been carried out. The final caliphate is now being fought against the west and no lives will be spared as 6:158 says all who are not muslims when muslims take over will be slaughtered.

    Muhammad was no prophet. But he was a great General! His Islamic movement was akin to the occultic movement of Nazi Germany. I could prove that Islam fulfills the Beast out of the earth but that would take much more reading. But for now here is enough information to introduce you readers to Islam 101. I have exhausted several works and all quotations come from authentic sources from the Fezzexandrian Museum of Antiquity. Yes, I live in a museum. My own library has reached museum status. I never quote from anything I cannot authenticate in a court of law. My research has been approved by various reputable Christian scholars who deal with Islam, which does include former muslims who found the truth of Christ.
     
    #15 FEZZILLA, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  16. FEZZILLA

    FEZZILLA Member

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    Women and Islam.

    From Ibn Ishaq "The life of Muhammad" (The Sira)

    :eek:
    Muhammad lusted after a crawling baby.

    I the next hadith Muhammad bangs a 9 year old girl. :yow: :eek:

    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.7, Book 67, Chapter 60, Hadith 5158,


    Islamic Jurisprudence.

    Heavenly Ornaments (Behishti Zewar), pp. 624-625,

    38085380_500676353710377_2173118954875125760_n.jpg
    Qur'an 4:15, Mawdudi translation:

    Noble Qur'an 4:15 (Muhsin Khan):

    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.1, Chapter 12, hadith No. 2658,


    Al-Muwatta' (The Approved), Vol.2, Book 41, hadith 11,

    dxngbqm2qdny.jpg



    Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.7, Book 77, Chapter 23, Hadith 5825,

    sharia-barbie-2.jpg
     

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