This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

I Want You!

Join Symphony X and discover tons of other great Metal forums, sign up today!

Learning Orchestration/Symphonic musical patterens

Discussion in 'Musicians Corner' started by masqueraded, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. masqueraded

    masqueraded fReaK DrAgON

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Can anyone help me to learn orchestration or let me know about some sites related to learning that? I want to get started with orchestration and symphonic musical patterns. or any software u want to recommend which can be used with recording sequencers like Sonar or Nuendo..(with download link)....:)
     
  2. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    17,892
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Hallways of Always
    I don't know if any of those DAWs have free trials that I can link you to. Audacity is free I believe. By orchestration you mean stuff like writing music, composing for multiple parts, stuff like that. I recommend checking out Guitar Pro 5 or Power Tab Software. These are for programming midi music and sheet music. The programs you listed also do this, but their main function is recording and editing audio that you play into it, like your guitar, microphone, etc.
     
  3. Eternal Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,085
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    There is a lot of theory behind orchestration. You have to pretty much know everything about each intrument you intend on using. For that reason it is quite hard, plus the fact that you need to be able to think in MANY multiple layers at once.

    However, the good thing is that you can still make sweet orchestral music without knowing all that much. It may not actually be playable in a real orchestra, but meh... its not going to happen anyway.

    I'd recommend just playing around with a theme and variations. Start of simple, and then work in certain parts of theory. For example you might want a 2 track section that practices counterpoint, then you might want to continue that on but rearrange it to incorporate something else. The reason i'm recommending this is that the best way to learn something is to actually use it.
     
  4. Metalman7983

    Metalman7983 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm in orchestration this quarter for my composition degree a great book is Orchestration by Piston is his last name. Its about 50 years old but not much as changed with the instrumentation to much. But it gives you everything you would ever need to know. Instrument ranges and formations, basics of writing for typical orchestrial insturments and all different types of dynamics assoiciated with each instrument its pretty on amazon.
     
  5. The Emptier

    The Emptier t3h b3aSt0rZ

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    10,535
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Columbus, OH/Bay Area, CA
    idk just learn stuff like 3,4,5th harmonies etc. im not quite sure. i dont have real software but i just use GP5
     
  6. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    It helps a lot of you actually listen to a shitload of the types of music you wish to be able to compose. Movie soundtracks would be great to listen to.
     
  7. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    Well I'm into orchestration myself (to be honest it's MJR who first inspired me to get into it a while ago when I listened to V and Odyssey and read some interviews...etc, and for that he'll eternally owe me :)) so I may be of some help if you're serious about such an endeavor.
    I'll just point out a few important things for now that I wish someone told me all at once when I first started:

    COGNITION:

    Cognition is of an utmost importance here, as Gentleman of the Snow advised, the first step is to listen... Whatever you can get your hands on, classical stuff, baroque, romantic, modern (okay this one could be a little harder to "get" especially at first, but if you want my advice DON'T let that stop you from exploring this fine and mind-challenging/opening art).

    Film music is great too if you wanna go that way; personally, guys like Hans Zimmer, Howard Shore, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith...etc have always been an open source of inspiration.

    THEORY:

    Also read, learn, and practice as much as you can, the things you have to train yourself into here are mainly composition, counterpoint, harmony, orchestration/instrumentation.

    I'd recommend this free online course:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45270

    And here you shall find a good list of book recommendations:
    http://decamusic.com/images/VI_book_recommendations.htm

    TOOLS:

    I'd say do yourself a favor and don't distract yourself with too much software stuff, you can literally spend the rest of your life in forums debating about which is the best orchestral sample library without actually learning about or making any music.
    Just save up some money and get this stuff (by order):

    1) A DAW (digital audio workstation): such as Cubase, Sonar...etc. This is where you write, record, mix, master your music: Indispensable.

    2) A beginner's/student orchestral sample library (I personally recommand EWQL Silver Edition, or Garritan Personal Orchestra): A virtual orchestra at your fingertips, you're gonna enjoy this! :cool:

    Once you have these, you might want to consider getting:

    3) A midi controller (midi keyboard): my recommendation is M-Audio's Keystation 88es, or any other smaller keyboard from M-Audio: This will facilitate the writing/recording process.

    4) Studio monitors (I also tend to recommend M-Audio's stuff here): Useful for mixing/production of your music.

    *Learn how to use this stuff, and how to get the best out of it. Start here: http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm


    That's all I can think of right now as a way of kinda summing it up for you.
    Hope it helps a bit.


    Cheers :kickass:
     
  8. masqueraded

    masqueraded fReaK DrAgON

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Thanks a lot guys...definitely your suggestions will help me...:)
     
  9. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I actually write music in GP3 all the time. I write for fun and listen to it as a MIDI (I can barely notice how shitty MIDIs sounds these days... all I hear is the music now), and sometimes I do write for the band I'm in at the time.
     
  10. masqueraded

    masqueraded fReaK DrAgON

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    ya..gp3/5 is a good tool for experiment...wts your band's name dude? :cool:
     
  11. Yngvai X

    Yngvai X Dark Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,468
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Woodland Park, NJ
    if you're a mac user, it gets no easier to write and compose music than with Logic Pro. Costs some cash ($500), but much MUCH less than it used to, plus you can also get the same functionality with Logic Express, just less soft synths, and that only costs $99.

    Also I'm looking at the site with the orchestration course... sounds awesome, but how do I access the lessons?
     
  12. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    You're welcome dude!

    Ahhh.. the old MIDI days...
    I used to search and download loads of MIDI music (video games, movies...etc) and just sit there and listen to them, get a few ideas at times... It was fun!

    I second that, GP is a classic. Spent a lot of time with it myself before I made the switch to Cubase and big-assed sample libraries...etc

    Sure, there you go:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=77
    I'd recommend this to anyone interested, such a friendly and educational environment.
    Gary rules!

    Cheers
     
  13. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I haven't been in any really serious bands, and I am not in any bands at the current moment. I hope to get a good prog metal band going in a few years though, especially after working on my drum chops.

    I've written a shitload of MIDIs that I could share, but I have no idea how to post that kind of stuff on the forums.
     
  14. masqueraded

    masqueraded fReaK DrAgON

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Yappp...dudee....this book is awesome...thanks a lot my friend..i was looking for this kinda source...thanks again:headbang:
     
  15. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    Happy to help dude! :headbang:
    I'll be here if you need anymore.

    Have fun and good luck! :kickass:
     
  16. Lucius Octavion

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Wow, man... funny... I have that exact book sitting on my desk right now! William Piston.
     
  17. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    ^ Actually he was referring to professor Walter Piston's 'Orchestration'.

    You might also want to check out his other books 'Harmony' and 'Counterpoint', I recommend them.
     
  18. Lucius Octavion

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Woops sorry it is Walter Piston. When you have no sleep for a day you see things wrong. :erk:

    I took a picture of it for proof

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    Oh tell me about it man..
    Last night after being awake for more than 24hours, I was practicing at like 4am. I was doing some fast picking stuff till I put the pick between my lips to play some clean line using fingers, then I hit the distortion back and was like: "now where the hell did I put that pick?" (cause I usually just throw it on my lap or so). I even went looking for my picks' box but found myself on the way face to face with my room's mirror, and there it was: The stupidest moment of my life.

    I stopped everything and went to bed with this face ==> :erk:
     
  20. Seaoflies07

    Seaoflies07 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    California
    im really confused, is a soft synth a program that essesntialy is a virtual keyboard?
     

Share This Page