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Let's post raw guitar sounds for EQ matching.

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by weimark, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

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    Getting a better tone? Work at it. Pays off in dividends. Not everyone's best (and consequently, signature) work came from matching what you hear on your favorite records. I've always felt it was a personal affair, meaning the passion involved was what had that "soul" we all chase after. I'm a little drunk, but hear me out. The only reason I found this forum is because I was just getting into audio, and I heard Testament's Formation of Damnation. I wanted to learn the engineer, to learn how he crafted such a work of art. I could not ever copy what he has done, but I use Andy as inspiration, just like I do Ermz and Joey. How am I supposed to better myself if I don't learn anything? How are any of us going to get anywhere if we don't try?
     
  2. Virgil.

    Virgil. ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    +1
     
  3. weimark

    weimark New Metal Member

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    You know, sometimes I mix without any drum samples or digital amps and It sounds pretty good. Sometimes that don't work for some reason. For example now my guitar has old strings and when's that it sounds pretty awful. So really the only solution is to change strings or use something like EQ Matching. But I can't spend money to change them as I don't have anything serious to do. Why not use EQ Matching? And we "the audio guys" sometimes usually forget that this is about the MUSIC and not the mixing. Right?
     
  4. Ascendant

    Ascendant Member

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    Oh but you couldn't be more wrong, if you actually read what some of the people here said you'd realize mixing to some of us is as much of an art as the music itself.
     
  5. Maybelater

    Maybelater Member

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    This EQ match thing is totally worthless for me due to the fact that every mix I have needs Its Guitar dialed in for that song.
     
  6. MatrixClaw

    MatrixClaw Member

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    Match EQ is a cool tool.

    I wouldn't use it on a mix I'd put out for a band, but I do use it for covers. For example, I'm doing a distorted cover of Time of Grace's The Forgotten One right now, so I EQ matched the distorted tone from another one of their songs, so I can dial in the rest of the song to that tone. Is it going to sound exactly like them in the long run? No. But it will sound similar, which is what I am going for.

    Obviously, if I'm recording an original, or a band, I don't want to EQ match to another band's tone, because it's probably not going to work for them, or their mix. Though, if they previously recorded something that they really like, but don't have access to the gear anymore, it can be a good starting point to be able to match EQ their old tone, and shape it to the song from there.
     
  7. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Member

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    It's not like you can't use your own EQ after the match EQ process. :)

    Saying that match EQ'd guitar tracks won't sit in another mix is just like saying sampled drums won't sit in a mix. The answer will be: EQ/compress them to fit the mix. Same rule applies.

    So I don't think using drum samples ever made any engineer better at mic'ing up drums. But I also think it doesn't matter. It simply works.

    I'm not saying everyone will love this technique. Most drummers (who don't know better) still give me a hard time about using samples instead of mic'ed tones. The fact is simply I can get a mix to sound more professional with samples. Sure I have to post-process them to fit the mix. Same thing goes for match EQ'd guitars.

    Then you might also want to look into what sound you've match EQ'd. John Petrucci is one of those guitarists who doesn't really allow post processing. If his guitars don't sit, he will go change the amp settings or mic positions until they do. So what you get is a somewhat unprocessed guitar spectrum if you rip his tone. Sure his guitars go through comps/eqs in the mastering phase at least. Still lately I've ended up using the re-amp signal a lot more than I used to.

    A lot of talk about Sneap's 5150 + Recto setup and settings. Why not use some raw tracks of that setup and match EQ it and you can always get that tone at home without having to run an amp loud and pay for studio time...

    I guess this is the basic pessimist and optimist conversation.

    Remember that you don't have to use match EQ if you don't want to. You might want to give it a try and maybe make your mind up after that.

    This was introduced this year: (not sure when)
    http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/...plifier___Guitar_Amplification_Redefined.html

    And it blew people's brains up: "wow, I can save my mic/amp/setup" I was like: "I've been doing that for a year already... "
     
  8. JakeAC5253

    JakeAC5253 Frozen Sun Audio

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    Clark Kent, why do you assume time and time again that drum "samples" are anything but previously miked and recorded drum sounds? There is no parallel between using impulse responses of an actual recording setup, previously recorded drum samples, and decimating your own recording by the whim of some software pack to achieve someone else's.

    Another thing you fail to understand is that using match EQ does NOT, in any way shape or form SIMULATE the effects of a higher quality interface, which you said word for word earlier in this very thread. I don't know what gave you this idea, but trust me, the match EQ program that you use is simply an IN/OUT processing system, and the output is not in any way detached completely from the input. I can't make a recording of my cat meowing and get Meshuggah tone by using match EQ.

    I have throughout my career in audio engineering made recordings of my tube head and 4x12 cabinet rig using a distortion pedal through the clean channel of my amp and recorded using high quality recording gear. Now the person who hears this recording and assumes that by buying this distortion pedal to run into their Line 6 Spider combo that they will achieve the same sound at a fraction of the cost of my entire rig and recording setup... is completely wrong. YOU, Clark Kent, have a high quality front end system, and probably have a good computer to run it too. Someone who just bought their first M Audio Fast Track Pro, isn't using a DI box, and probably has a handful of pirated software with no audio engineering experience whatsoever, will NOT be able to achieve the same results using Match EQ that you can.
     
  9. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Member

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    Sure, it's not the same thing as samples at all. Just using that as an example. This might hurt some guitar players but we respect guitars way too much IMO. High gain guitar tones are simply un-dynamic static like sound. If there's dynamic stuff in high gain guitars, usually all engineers limit those.

    Just saying that I am a guitar player and I've been experimenting with different amps for years. I mean I've owned almost ten different Mesa amps, Oranges, a Bogner... even a Marshall and spent plenty of hours recording them and the fact is that when we're at the studio finding the sound it works really well. Then when I come home it's very rarely comparable to "high-end" recordings. I mean it's something that still sounds great and can be post-processed to work really well but still nothing "hifi". Getting that hifi thing is way easier with impulses and the tonal difference is so tiny that honestly... no one gives a f***. Maybe the guys who are interested on how many tubes and what Neves were involved but that's like 3% of the "crowd" so why bother?

    Nowadays we see so many people recording with Axe-Fx and professionals swearing by it from Steve Vai to Satriani, Bulb, OLA, Sfogli and Petrucci. Although not all of these guys use Axe-Fx on records some of them do but no one has noticed a difference. Axe-Fx is also running on impulse responses. Honestly I got better results when I got to make tones with the Axe-Fx in the control room.

    I've got the Axe-Fx cabs in my Overloud TH2, OwnHammer IRs, Redwirez IRs and match EQ'd IRs. The only thing I'm missing is natural feedback... which I can get by driving my KRK's LOUD! :)

    But hey... I'm not trying to force-feed this to you guys. Just hate it when people bash without trying which ALWAYS happens when something new comes around.

    Like I said before, I am willing to make comparison clips to prove my point. :) I know match EQ isn't 100% accurate and that's not the point. It's accurate enough that no one gives a f*** what it is.
     

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