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Discussion in 'Nevermore' started by rebirth, Sep 3, 2012.
New episode in Slayer's gory tale:
Yeah but I've been listening to that entire album on Youtube while I was cleaning up my loft, and I have to say that it honestly kicks ass. It's all the great parts of MF/KD without the meh stuff.
I'm totally confused. Are you talking about Helstar, or Attic here? If you're talking about Attic, I would have assumed that you've already heard them by now and probably written them off. As far as I'm concerned though, Attic are the best Mercyful Fate tribute band in existence.
Also, I never said that there wasn't a difference between Owens and Rivera. I just think that he sounds a lot more like Owens than he does King Diamond is all. Although I really think he sounds the most like Halford. I also agree that Owens typically has more power in the higher ranges, but he doesn't even sound like he's using falsetto nearly as much as head voice most of the time too.
Was talking about Attic. Why would I have written them off? I love MF/KD.
Head voice is falsetto. I think you mean chest voice.
He does sound a lot like Halford. However, the music coupled with his highs remind me of King Diamond, regardless of whether he sounds more like Halford or not. Helstar's Vampiro is channeling Mercyful Fate, though...it's great.
There are tons of discussions about this, and a lot of vocal coaches that explain the differences. The breathy, "paper thin" sound is falsetto. What it sounds like Owens is doing is more head voice. It blends with the chest voice and there's no disconnection going up or down the scale. Both resonate more in the head.
They are similar, but they aren't the same.
Yes, that's technically true. In all actuality, King has a real, true falsetto because it's child-like, breathy and thin. There is a blend when it comes to power metal highs, but it's more of a mix of falsetto and screaming, which would be head voice. It's used almost exclusively in heavy metal, but for clarity's sake, let's just say falsetto = head voice. But I see what you're saying and I agree completely.
This Vampiro album is fucking amazing. It's epic as all get out, really dark, and very imaginative without getting cheesy. It's catchy as hell and reminds me of Sanctuary/Nevermore with Mercyful Fate and Jugulator. Rivera is channeling King through Halford and a dab of Warrel, and the music is simple but well done, catchy, and heavy as hell for power thrash metal. I'm loving it.
Glad you are enjoying it. The next closest album they have would be The King of Hell from 2008, but it's more of a straight up thrash album without nearly the same atmosphere throughout.
I like that shit! The King of Hell reminds me of Tim Owen's band, Winters Bane
I will have to check out the rest, than. I hate judging something based on one song, but it is hard not to when something comes across as a ripoff
It's more of an homage than a ripoff. It's like old MF with better production and a bit more epic-ness. I mean, Tim Owens is basically a ripoff of Halford in everything he does if you just compare the vocals, but everything he touches is still awesome. Trust me, you'll dig it.
Yeah I had previously heard it, and it's not bad but there are better bands who do that. Vampiro is special because it's very atmospheric, being a concept album, and the delivery really does it for me. It sounds like the soundtrack to a really kickass vampire RPG. Black Cathedral is one of the most epic-sounding songs in this genre that I've ever heard. They kinda transcended from obscure, relative mediocrity in a sea of other same-y bands to a forerunner of albums this year in this genre. The last time I heard a concept album this massive in this genre was Iced Earth's The Glorious Burden, even though that album is a lot cheesier and has some hit or miss tracks. The entire Vampiro album is really good at the very least.
when Tim first emerged, yes he was a Halford clone, but as the years have progressed, he has carved out his own sound. Occasionally, I still hear Halford, but not near as much. The stuff he does on Charred Walls of the Damned is really good, vocally. And, the stuff he did with Yngwie was really good.
Other than the more modern production, and snarly vocals, I'm amazed that you seem to enjoy this album so much, but think Nosferatu is pure cheese. Vampiro is pretty much 60% Nosferatu, 40% The King of Hell. The production just makes this sound like 80s Anthrax to me. No idea how you could listen to this and not enjoy the guitars though.
It's funny that you like "Black Cathedral" so much. I picked that song specifically because of how epic it is. I don't know yet if it's quite "Dante's Inferno" level yet, but it's pretty good.
the sounding like 80's Anthrax might be the reason. lol
Persistence Of Time was pretty rad. But I guess that's technically 1990...
Nosferatu isn't bad for what it is: 80s melodic thrash metal, or just thrash metal with a power singer. I think we called that speed metal at the time. It's not bad or anything, it's just not very interesting to me. It's cheesy, sure, but that's not what turns me off about it; it's just rather same-y, whereas Vampiro is all over the place. I like variety and 80s thrash was definitely not about variety, so I either go for variety or blistering speed a la Nuclear Assault. The riffs are somewhat interesting but at this point I've heard so many clones of this stuff that it doesn't do anything for me.
TBH, I always felt the first half of that album was much stronger than the second, and in terms of what I would actually want to listen to right now, it would be Vampiro. What I am finding odd though, is that it's only getting decent reviews, for what reviews there are. Some are even claiming that once you hear the first few songs, you know what to expect from the entire album. Uh, power thrash? Should I have been expecting polka later? Although I guess I can kind of see what they are saying. When I introduced a friend to Nevermore via Politics of Ecstasy back in '97, he said all of the songs sounded the same to him upon his first listen. He wasn't much interested in the band, and then DNB hit and he was completely enamored. Probably won't be another album like this until the next Sanctuary or Hell album either. In 2019 or 2020, although Anciients will have a new album out in October.
Also, "Speed Metal" was just a generic code for anything that was fast and technical. Metallica, Judas Priest, Helloween, Mercyful Fate, Megadeth, Anthrax etc were all labeled that, depending on who was talking. I don't know when "Black", "Thrash" and "Power" were introduced as genres, but it might have been a few years after each of these bands had reached their prime, and there were enough bands playing in a similar style that people could actually differentiate them.
thrash was 80's, as well. Anthrax were often known as a "thrash" band. The whole sub genre naming is stupid, though. It's all metal.
I think Politics, and DNB both carry a similar atmospheric sound throughout each album. Most bands, when they write an album, don't do it on purpose, but that is how it plays out.
I know that. What I'm saying is that before that style was considered a seperate genre, it was simply called speed metal. The 80s had a lot of emerging styles, especially after the NWOBHM.
I also don't understand the loathing for genres either. It's a lot easier to recommend particular bands than to just say "metal". Unless you don't notice the distinction between grindcore and your typical Euro Flower Metal?
I mean, if you want to be reductive, why bother stopping at "metal"? Metal, country, classical and jazz are all just "music" right?
thrash and speed metal existed, or came about at the same time. some people label Metallica as thrash, and some label them as speed metal(well, their early stuff). Anthrax, to me, is more thrashy, than speed.
the reason I don't like the sub-labeling is it might scare someone away from a band. If someone despises a certain sub genre of metal, they might miss out on a whole lot of cool bands. It can, also, pigeonhole a band into a corner, where they might not feel they can express themselves outside of that sub-genre.