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Mixing way to Hot...

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Zombietakeover, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. Sean in Silence

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    why not just turn everything way down like Marcus mentioned and not have to worry about the master clipping? :)
     
  2. Mesa4x12er

    Mesa4x12er Member

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    If everything is getting harsh when you squash it it might mean you are tracking to hot. Try not ever tracking hotter than -18 in 24bit.
     
  3. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    btw, I have also noticed that after I bought the Genelecs I have, I have been mixing less harshly, because if the mix is harsh, they sound really annoying. So the monitoring might also be the problem here.
     
  4. Russtopher

    Russtopher Member

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    BTW I'd just like to say that the original post on the "making guitars bigger" thread about mixing using the bass first as a guideline is GOLD. PURE GOLD.

    I always worked from left to right - kick, snare, OH, toms, bass, guitars, vox, then keys/anything else. Starting with bass made a world of difference in both the quality of mix, and how quick the mix came together.

    That post is printed out and sitting right next to my monitors, where it'll remain for a LONG time.
     
  5. Zombietakeover

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    Alright not a bad thread....I actually got some discussion going

    But i have since went back and mixed another song off the same cd and tried to compare the too......I mixed a hell of alot softer this time

    I tried to make sure that the master bus was hovering around -6 and the occasional -3 . Which is tons different then just slapping a limiter on the 2bus and cranking everything.....

    If you look at the first post of this thread the song i posted is here
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/637857/burnthereplicamix12.mp3


    And my new and improved mix....remember it's not the same song but it's on the same album so everything used is the same
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/637857/splitdogs20.mp3

    but yeh let me know what you think, i also posted a thread about the song in the rate my mix part
    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/rate-my-mix-tone-threads/521170-check-out-my-latest-my-best-yet-i-think.html
     
  6. beyond dead

    beyond dead heavy metal dad \m/

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    this makes sense to me.

    zombie takeover, I just listened to your mix, and it sounds really good. I can see what your saying, but it is not something would notice unless I overanalyzed. what monitors do you use?

    the reason your 2 bus clips w/o the master buss processing is because you mixed with a comp on the 2 bus, right? That doesnt sound uncommon. turning down every fader (obviously by selecting them all simultaneously, who would do them individually :p) is the best way to fix that.

    but I think the subtleties you are speaking of may be caused by your monitoring, or improper "gain staging" resulting in a little less transparency than your ears are tuned to
     
  7. Zombietakeover

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    beyond dead - My monitoring chain is :
    ONYX 400F > SM Pro Audio M-patch 2 > Yamaha MSP5's
    also in the M-patch 2 manual it says to put the volume knobs on your monitors to max and anything else you hook up to it and then you use the volume attenuator on the m-patch 2 to turn it down to listening level
    Hope i'm not messing something up

    Yeah i mix with a comp on the 2 buss
    I'm talking just taking off the limiter with the compressor still on it was hitting 6 dbs in the red.

    you don't hear the difference between the too? the first one sounds completely fried to me. Ahjteam explain it best in my first post...

    What do you mean by this? I don't understand
    "but I think the subtleties you are speaking of may be caused by your monitoring, or improper "gain staging" resulting in a little less transparency than your ears are tuned to"

    thanks dude
     
  8. Aaron Smith

    Aaron Smith Envisage Audio

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    I hear what you're saying, but if someone has the ability to get the spectral balance right during mixing, then there should be no excuse to leave the whole mix a little darker than you'd like or leave the low end a little weak. Why not try to mix in the right low end depth prior to mastering? Sure, the right mastering engineer with the right philosophy with the right room can probably enhance almost any mix at least a little, but I don't think it's quite right to try to hold back certain frequency ranges during mixing, so long as you're confident in what you're doing. You'll run into problems if you just start boosting 40Hz and 18kHz by 3dB but can't really hear what you're doing, but otherwise I would recommend always trying to spectrally maximize each instrument to how you think it should sound.
     
  9. beyond dead

    beyond dead heavy metal dad \m/

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    I only listened to your first clip, i missed your post right before mine, maybe we were posting simultaneously? anyways, your new mixes are sounding better for sure! but they seem a little muffled in the hi mids to me now though (yet again very subtle)

    by gain staging, I mean like staging compression on the 2 bus perfectly, maybe a limiter is limiting the high mid range that has alot of transients a bit too much, which brings it up front and makes it a little "in your face"

    the monitors you are using are pretty good. I noticed when I changed from my old fostex to yammy hs80, and got room treatment, that I was able to hear what the compression / limiting was doing better. not claiming to be an expert, just mentioning an observation I have made.
     
  10. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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  11. beyond dead

    beyond dead heavy metal dad \m/

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    that was a good article ahjteam! but, it is a little vague about gain staging. basically the thing to do is practice using different combos of limiting, comp, clipping, eq, whatever on the 2 bus, with different settings. then compare and note the subtle differences. I find getting an even balance between freqs has alot to do with how the master bus effects work together to mould your mix.
     
  12. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    gain staging starts way before you ever get to the master buss comp!

    that shit starts all the way back at setting levels properly with your preamps and not hitting the converters too hard...
     
  13. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    Troof, headroom to spare at every stage is always wise, especially in this day and age of low-noise gear and 24-bit recording!
     
  14. Zombietakeover

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    I have been reading up on Gain Staging....And from what i found out that it's mostly for the Analog realm. As long as you aren't doing anything really crazy...Like turning one plugin down only to boost it again in the next plugin ....you really shouldn't run into a problem.

    as far as recording In at -6dbs.....that's what i have always done

    Beyond dead can you talk more on this statement
    "I mean like staging compression on the 2 bus perfectly"
     
  15. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    call me crazy, but my shit doesn't come in anywhere near that hot on tracking

    maybe it's just the way my converters are calibrated, but for me 0dbvu = around -16dbfs, and i make damned sure that my preamps don't hit over 0dbvu unless i'm pushing them hard for character
     
  16. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    Yup, only that hot for DI's, otherwise I keep it at -10 or so!
     
  17. Zombietakeover

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    What is the Odbvu for 400f....I looked in the manual and all i could really find was in the back in the specs....It was talking about signal LEDS and when they mentioned -10(normal operating level)......is that where you got your number marcus? so di's -6? everything else -16 to -10 ish area?.......i got a band that wants to do one song and im going to pay close attention to levels...not like i didn't before , i just think i let some things pass....I have been recording bass and vocals at -6 too...ouch
     
  18. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    the only way to really see what the dbfs level for your system is at 0dbvu is to run some sort of test tone into the preamp...crank it until it's even at 0, and look to see what the correspending input level on your DAW's meters is

    TBH i've never done this with my system(onyx 1640), but have eyeballed to somewhere between -14 and -16
     
  19. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    0dBu = 0.775V
     
  20. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    Haha, nah, I just pulled those numbers out of my ass, mostly cuz they just seemed like a good balance between leaving some headroom and still getting a strong signal! :lol: (for the -10 thing, that is - my DI's actually usually peak closer to -3, but since they're so freakin' dynamic, the peak value is a very poor indicator of overall level strength)
     

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