This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

My new favorite way to get stuff loud ...

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by smy1, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. smy1

    smy1 Drink Beer, Kick Ass!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    I recently came upon a way for getting my electro/dance mixes really loud. Electro usually has more bass energy than metal, so this will probably work very well for rock/metal too.

    My mixbus chain for this is:

    1) Sonalksis Free-G Stereo
    2) Satson Buss (signal peaking at 0db VU)
    3) Voxengo TapeBuss (set to "Tape Compression" at 1 or 2 db GR)
    4) Duende Stereo Compressor (4:1, 30ms attack, auto release - at 1-4db GR)
    5) Fabfilter Pro-Q (set to "Subtle Stereo Widening" preset)
    6) Fabfilter Pro-L (set to "bM clipping" preset)

    The trick is now to use the Pro-L as if you were clipping A/D converters by driving the signal up with the output of the Duende and watching the RMS meter of the Pro-L.

    It's been very easy to get up to -8db RMS without any artifacts or kicks/snares disappearing and -6db RMS is usually no problem either, but I don't really need it to be that loud.

    I usually mix without any limiting, so this is all done after the mix is finished.

    If you have Pro-L, try it!
     
  2. Charles J

    Charles J New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,918
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Will defo try this, albeit a bit modified to fit into my beloved 2BUSS chain.... may switch out limiters and give Pro-L a shot... I've only got it to work for "me" once in a mastering session but haven't really played around with it enough to know what's cool about it.

    Cheers for all the info, bro! I love the pseudo A/D clipping idea. NOICE.
     
  3. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma.
    Whoa. Nice.

    What does the Free-G stereo do in the chain?
     
  4. Morgan C

    Morgan C MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Could you post some clips? Perhaps one with nothing on the masterbus, one with your chain, and maybe one with just GClip (I'm happy to do this using the raw track if you're on a Mac) to compare?
     
  5. rbkonline1

    rbkonline1 under construction

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I've been using the Pro L since few months. It works well, specially in the 'transparent' mode.
     
  6. AndrewB

    AndrewB That Darn Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    I would like to know what the Free-G is doing as well. And since I think all of these except for the Free-G have to be paid for, or have a limited trial version, it would be nice to know how I could duplicate all of these with free plugins. Obviously it wouldn't sound the same, but I imagine it would have the same effect.

    What is the Free-G doing?
    Is the Satson Buss just making it peak at 0db, or is there something else that it's doing? Maybe some kind of analog emulation or something?
    Is the Pro-Q like a M/S EQ or something like that?
    What does the "bM clipping" preset mean? Is that basically just a brickwall limiter?
     
  7. Uros

    Uros Sonic Incision

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    between sine waves
    He's using FreeG as a trim pot, to get it to ~0 dBVU level, which he then feeds to Satson (Satson buss doesn't have 'drive' function, so that's why FreeG is placed before Satson).
    Satson is a console emu, somewhat similar to Slate VCC (but it only emulates one console).
     
  8. gabriel g.

    gabriel g. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Hamburg
    I am doing something similar but with hardware clipping.

    I am pushing the makeup gain of my hardware ssl into my metric halo converter
     
  9. smy1

    smy1 Drink Beer, Kick Ass!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    Sorry guys. Too busy finishing my next album so I can't do any comparison clips etc.

    Gabriel: yea, I got the idea when talking about the technique of clipping one's hardware ADCs, so we tried it with Pro-L because that has a clipping mode in it.

    If you guys try it with other chains/plugins, please let me know how it works.
     
  10. dcb

    dcb nerd

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    ive always clipped mixes with ozone, it has a clipping mode. but gotta try out the pro l too, maybe it works even better!
    thansk for sharing samy!
     
  11. worldwideweapon

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Is there a reason to do the gaining with plugin before clipper, instead of just raising the gain on the Pro L itself?

    + are you doing final ceiling with another plugin on the chain?
     
  12. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma.
    How does the pro-Q handle the low end?
     
  13. smy1

    smy1 Drink Beer, Kick Ass!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    worldwideweapon: I have Satson on all channels/busses and shoot for 0dbVU everywhere. Since I've started doing this, my mixes have become more transparent, easier to mix and "louder" on their own. By pulling the signal down/up to 0dbVU in the beginning of the chain, I hit all the plugins at that level. Final ceiling is done with Pro-L

    RedDog: I don't know, I only use it for the "Subtle Stereo Widening"-preset, which I totally dig.

    dcb: Hey Danny! I don't have Ozone, so I can't comment. I was very surprised by how easy I could get loud with Pro-L!
     
  14. worldwideweapon

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Thanks. I'm gain staging same way as you.

    I asked, cause for some reason the ceiling fails within Pro-L and overs are displayed all the time and my usual -0.3 keeps going over 0 a lot. Even with the ISP on. Should that bM clipping preset even ceil anything as it's not meant to act like limiter?
     
  15. updog

    updog Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Finland
    i'm guessing the free-G is there to help stage gain for satson buss?

    thanks for the tip, it really helps - i've been struggling with loudness and mastering overall lately... i'm going to try this out, first with demos to see if i can replicate this using plugins i own... then i might have to consider selling a bunch of plugins and buying Pro-L.. :lol:
     
  16. updog

    updog Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Finland
    dude i love you for sharing this!! totally fixes the problems i've had while trying to master shit

    i guess this means i'm going to have to buy pro-l...
     
  17. zer0_c00l

    zer0_c00l Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    HOLY FUCKING SHITCUNTCOCK!!
    I'm amazed with this, as sopulurn said it really fixes the problem i had!

    Thanks for this awesome tip!
     
  18. Red Phoenix

    Red Phoenix Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Germany
    Couldn't replicate it exactly like you do, but it's a great suggestion and it seems that with AD clipping instead of just using Limiters it sounds overall fuller. Have to try out more in that direction. Thank you for your info!
     
  19. Sloan

    Sloan Sounds like shit!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    5,076
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Is this not similiar the all the gclip jizzathon was going on a while back?

    clip your kick/snr/toms to remove peaks, comp them and get a good slamming pretty flat drum track, and then on the two bus run at least one light clipper to destroy any renegade transients. this all simulates the analog clipping of running your loud shit through hardware and back and then your 2buss comps/limiters don't have to work nearly as hard and your mixes are loud a fuck.
     
  20. smy1

    smy1 Drink Beer, Kick Ass!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,755
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    Sloan: nope, it's different.

    As you describe it you use one or two light clipping instances and then you limit.

    What I'm describing is one clipper (Pro-L) at the end of your chain instead of a limiter. Then you drive the audio into the clipper really hard.

    Using Pro-L that way, I found I could get more volume without clipping artefacts. G-Clip always starts sounding distorted to me really quickly. That's why I never liked using it. I also don't like clipping drum tracks.
     

Share This Page