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Not enough energy in screams and growls

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Rul0r, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    Hi Folks,
    I'm a hobby producer from Germany. I have mixed some rather nice sounding eps and at the moment i'm mixing an ep for a project of a friend. It's basicly swedish deathmetal with a lady on the vocals.

    While mixing the tracks i stumbeld upon a problem i discoverd recently with a few other singers. But this time i'm just i charge for mixing. The recording was done a few month back and i have no chance to get some more takes under my authority.

    Because she is a professional melodic singer and she never screamed or shouted before, she did the best she could, but her screams are more or less just whispers with bit grunt or so. The link shows 2- 16 sec clips. One dry and one with a little processing (first approach, not happy).
    Currently i'm trying different eq's and saturations vsts. But i'm not happy with the results i achieve.
    My problem is, that when i push the lvl you can hear that the screams have no energy but if i place it "behind" the mix it's barely noticeable.
    Any suggestions?

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jte26acpdeicmi1/mSAa-f2uAc

    Thx
    Cheers
    Rul0r
     
  2. Nuno Filipe

    Nuno Filipe You talkin' to me?

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    Have you tried some kind of doubler and pitch shifting? You can also try some overdrive.
     
  3. jarrysopa1984

    jarrysopa1984 Audio Engineer

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    The truth is that I always say in cases like that: The sound is created in front of the mic not afterwards. You can't polish a turd. I mean there's nothing wrong with the way it is recorded, signal is good. But the performance lacks the energy. you can't do much about it, expect blowing it out of proportion, like distorting it more like with the Sound Toys Decapitator or similar things. But all that will not magically enhance the lack of power. With vocals especially, there is nothing to put samples over like it's the case with drums.
     
  4. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    She recorded 12!!!! backing tracks for each part with different pitch. She really did a good job and tried everything to make it metal. It works for widening and so, but in most cases that is 10 takes over the top^^ i'm a bit overstrained of the amount of takes because i'm a bit of purist. Nail it ONE fucking time and don't try to overcompensate with 10 more backing tracks (my opinion) works for pop but i have no idea how to bring all the 12 layers in one track. Besides that, her clean vocals are soo good. Love her voice
     
  5. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    I will try the Decapitator (damn 350$!) on that. Focusing EQ from Softtube did not the job :(
     
  6. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

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    Did you record Golum?


    Joke aside, very bad performance so i'd too would have problem workng with this. But you can always limit the crap out of the vocals before you compress it and then limit it again to make it a complete turd!
     
  7. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    I'm so with you on that one. Extra tracks can be cool, but only when they complement a really good lead vocal performance! There are exceptions, obviously, but most of the time I prefer just having one really strong performance.

    I think that you can get a demo of Decapitator so you don't have to spend the cash if you don't like it.
     
  8. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    Golum lol!!!

    Yeah, i'll limit it to death, distore it, limit agian, than compress, good idea. I will try to shape the 200-500 hz area to make it a bit clearer maybe that works. And all that for 12 individual tracks yaaay fun day!!! The strange thing is, that hear clean vocals are on a professional lvl. Noo pitch-correct needed at all. How often do you hear that with clean epic vocals? But thanks for tips. I'll do my very best!
     
  9. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    Jupp, already ordered the demo. I have heard a lot good about Soundtoys, so i'll give it a try!
     
  10. ExecutiveRob

    ExecutiveRob Silent City Studio

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    Hardware 1176, all buttons in with slow attack, fast release can make things sound super aggressive when you start driving the input. Easy to overdo though. I assume the plugin does a similar thing, might be worth a try if you can demo it.

    Rob
     
  11. Nuno Filipe

    Nuno Filipe You talkin' to me?

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    12 tracks? If she went for a agressive approach with those 12 tracks, put that shit in a group and process them all together. But if in those tracks you have clean shit, so you must process different approaches individually
     
  12. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

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    sounds like a plan to me, not a lot else you can do in this case.
    maybe some parallel compression & distortion too.

    I don't think it's strange that her clean vox are professional and the growls aren't. Just because someone can sing doesn't mean he can do harsh vocals too.
    Sure, you'll have a huge start advantage cause you know the breathing techniques and are familiar with the way to set your voice, but it's a technique you have to learn too.

    And it's SO much about the attitude and balls in the performance.
     
  13. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    I've heard worse..

    Compress, distort, spank and generally mutilate it to give it some balls.... Or in this case ovaries
     
  14. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    Yeah, i guess your right. Singing properly is the one thing and growling an other. If the recording tech has know idea how a decent scream or growl shoud sound and if the singer doen't too you have no chance.

    Thanks for the advise! All buttons action FTW :)
     
  15. meanmrmustad

    meanmrmustad Supreme Member

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    Growl the parts and blend them in
     
  16. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    lol! i honestly thought a second about that. But that's not my job, i'm the drummer ^^
     
  17. Terminus

    Terminus Member

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    But your name is on it nonetheless. I'd just hire a good screamer guy to do them and call him a session vocalist. Make something to be proud of, not to make excuses for....and you will be doing that when it's released, trust me. Don't take the lazy route and try to fix something that is clearly broken. Redo them w/ a better vocalist, is my advice.

    I've even tried the pitch shifted layer to enhance a vocalist's performance before, and it was painfully easy to tell that it was an effect.
     
  18. Skaldir

    Skaldir formerly known as Unicorn

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    What the others said. compress a lot and distort. Pan some track. Try Quadrafuzz for distortion. It can be really cool on vocals
    I'm sure it can sound ok in the mix in the end.
     
  19. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    Whoa Qudrafuzz? Last time i saw that it came with cubase sx 3 or so. Never tried that. Thank's for the advice. You guys are really helpful!
     
  20. Rul0r

    Rul0r New Metal Member

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    Sooo tried a few of the tips. The Decapitator does a hell of job!! Sadly my buddy with his 1176 has no time. If you are interested, here you can hear an early mix approach. Same line with a few clean vocals at the beginning. The Signal is much hotter now. I really tried a lot but i would not release it like that.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/uw809jfbiscqhj1/Mix approach.wav

    I think Terminus is right. I need better takes to do a great Job.

    BTW JOB! Is hear anybody with an Conford mk50? PM me pls.

    Cheers
     

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