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Official Off Topic Thread

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by theodyssey, May 4, 2003.

  1. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    actually, everyone says that but i've seen hardly an episode of the simpsons that i didn't like. Which exactly are the shit ones? Because in seasons 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19 i've seen quite a few hysterical episodes.
     
  2. Phanto

    Phanto Alalalalalalalala.

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    because the simpsons have taken up the family guy-kind-of-writing and it's not classic simpson'ish at all. classic simpsons had unique wit and classy humor. now it's just trash.
     
  3. OfSinsAndShred

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    EXACTLY! They felt the pressure from South Park and Family Guy to be "edgier" and it ruined the show. The plots are less cohesive, the characters stupider, and it's just not as funny. Watching seasons 5 - 8 on DVD (Best Christmas present EVER) reminded me that they were pretty edgy for the time, but they did it with subtlety and class. That's why the mid-90's episodes are so classic.
     
  4. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    When my daughter was young and the cartoons played I found I didnt much care for the newer stuff, seems all about being crude and without class, farting, puking, being a smart ass so we stuck mostly with the old Warner Brothers and Disney stuff, just good clean fun. My daughter grew up to be very polite and respectable.
     
  5. OfSinsAndShred

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    I don't know if there's THAT much of a correlation there. I was really into the Nickelodeon stuff growing up, which included Rocko, Ren & Stimpy, etc... really vulgar stuff with lots of immature toilet humor - and it didn't make me grow up into a foul-mouthed jerk. My parents let me watch that stuff, but they didn't let me act like that in public or anything. Not to mention I never WANTED to act like that.
     
  6. CorpseDeception

    CorpseDeception Valar Morghulis

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    I never really liked the especially vulgar stuff on tv when I was little. Mostly I played video games on my super nintendo... which I still have and love. I still like most of those old not-at-all violent games more than many of the shit games I have laying around my room and car.
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    @Jeff - Good point, its all in how someone recieves the influence. I still feel its pointless though to put it out there. Its like you have adults that write the stuff for some unknown reason that are intentionally entertaining children with crude bullshit, poor attitudes and behavior. I just dont get it I guess. Never was much on that kind of humor.
     
  8. CorpseDeception

    CorpseDeception Valar Morghulis

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    Fairly Odd Parents isn't bad. They toss out a good joke here and there, make fun of stereotypes, and have a few morals now and then.
     
  9. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    I have to strongly disagree about the simpsons point. Yes, i think they did change their style a bit what with the release of south park and family guy, but i don't think it was a response to those shows. The show has always naturally progressed and changed, and while it got a little less realistic over the years, there's still classic lines and amazing episodes. Plus, there's always the issue that they've lost nearly 3 or 4 minutes of airtime since the series was first broadcast, so they have to keep episodes short. In the commentary tracks, they were talking about how they rarely have time for a solid B story anymore.

    As far as kids being influenced, i think that society puts too much emphasis on how impressionable people are. most of those cartoons, despite being gross and crude make it very clear that this is the point and it's funny because it's not acceptable in day to day life. If someone were to shit in the middle of the road every day, it wouldn't be humor (even potty humor). it'd be... fucking normal and boring eh? When i am with my friends, i enjoy gross shit, dick and ball jokes, poop humor, all that stuff. Pee is funny. But i also know when to reign that in and act "appropriate". I'd wager that if someone raises their kids on objectionable tv and the kid turns out shitty, it's probably because the parents allowed media to raise their kids for them.

    Stop blaming tv and movies for fucked up kids. That is all, thanks.
     
  10. OfSinsAndShred

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
  11. CorpseDeception

    CorpseDeception Valar Morghulis

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    +10

    In a related bit: CNN aired a segment this morning on video game addiction. They stated that 1 in 10 kids show signs and what those signs are and steps to take and so forth. I watched in resigned disbelief waiting to hear them advise parents not to let their children have access to video games. However, they didn't say that. They made a point of saying that most kids have no issues with video games and that if your kid is showing signs of addiction, it is /your/ responsibility to limit their time playing video games and such. I was impressed that they made a point of it not being the fault of producers, but of the parents.
    If some person knows their kid is impressionable and still lets them see and play whatever they wish, it is the fault of the parents, not the media and it is reprehensible that so many parents get away with awful parenting by blaming others. /rant
     
  12. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    It sounds good Zach but really far from the reality of it. Media pressure has been the most powerful culture changing mechanizm there is. Goes way back too... look at the bible. Im not sure "media" and "culture" are the best words here but I used them. Middle school and up behavior is mostly terrifing these days, for a couple of decades in fact. Parents are even stunned, "dont know why their kid behaved as such", "they dont act that way at home", its learned somewhere ? How much do we want to teach kids has always been my question ? Then by your saying "the parents fucked up" and this is quite common to be said, but the question there is... how much stuff do we want to put out there for parents to make a full time job fighting off ? "I know darling... they talk/act like that on cartoons but we dont do it here"... "OK Mom"... sounds simple... no ?

    Another interesting reversal of this would be the WWII/post WWII progaganda that was put in old cartoons that has come under so much criticism as to why "America is so racist". Not that I think the racist is accurate nor the America only part either, but this may very well come from those who think its fine to watch toilet humor cartoons. Well at least we got the leary racism out of cartoons and replaced it with... barfing.... sounds like progress to me.......

    All Im saying is I do not get the point of it, one thing is OK.... then another thing is frowned on. Someone will say "theres a reason one thing wont have any effect IF your a good parent... but another is going to make people monsters no matter what. Too much contradiction these days. No biggy, Im off the hook, I was already proven to be a shit parent by liberal anything goes except what WE dont like wankery and my work in that department is done. I was just saying... that is all
     
  13. Burnout

    Burnout Faith Puppeteer

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    Agreed.
     
  14. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

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    Excellent points, Zach. I watched terribly violent and rude things on TV at a really young age. I liked it the most, and it didn't have any negative effects on me whatsoever.

    As for The Simpsons, I agree with some previous posts. The older episodes had a lot more subtlety, and a lot more class. It was just a smarter comedy than it is now. I find the new episodes scream "trying too hard", and it just comes off forced.
     
  15. DoomsdayZach

    DoomsdayZach The Professor was right

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    That's all well and good, but honestly in most places kids aren't any worse than they were 30 or 40 years ago. My dad's told me stories about shit he did that was way worse than anything i did as a kid. I'm sure you and most of the grown ups have some pretty wild stories from shit you did. Kids aren't worse in general, punishment is just harsher due to stringent laws. If a kid has a bunch of beer and is caught, he's gonna get a ticket and probably have to go to court whereas most stories i've heard of the older generation involve having to pour their beers out and get a firm slap on the wrist.

    You can't control your kids all the time, and yes, you can responsibly monitor what your kids take in, but in the end (and this is simply MY perspective, this isn't to say that this is the only way to parent... makes sense though) it seems like the roll of a parent is more effectively used to give them some understanding what they're taking in so they can handle it semi-responsibly when their friends/schoolmates/whatever introduce them to whatever it may be. And remember that kids are going to fuck up sometimes because they're kids. That's normal.
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Yes there is those kind of storys and you are accurate there, but what you are talking about reminds me more of our graduation summer and a few years after. We were lucky as the drinking age was 18 then and yes we were usually told to go home. I was talking about verbal and physical disrespect in schools. The stories from teachers now, especially this middle school age, they say what they want which is rude stuff, no one can touch them and they know it, they laugh in the face of teachers and adminstration, theres deliberate destruction of property, poor ability to communicate rationally with each other under adversion, they are just highly skilled at saying or acting in ways that piss others off.... where does it come from ? Look at the pile of anti parent songs that came out, messages like "your the problem, get out of my way".... WTF, your damn right we're the problem, we're parents, we have a job to do, life isnt a huge free for all. "I just want to break something"... yeah man, way to be ! All this stuff jamed in their mind at a time like you mentioned, when kids are going through things.

    Dont get me wrong as indicating this is cut and dry 100% the problem, or that it has 100% saturation. My point was how much challenge does a parent need ? More, more, more, lets just keep uping the odds ? I found myself to be dancing to the tune of the lowest common denominator, always fighting off "well ____ parents let them" "____ does this... can do this.... whatever"

    You mentioned peer pressure "their friends/schoolmates/whatever introduce them to whatever", how can you recogonize this and ignore any possibility of influence from these various media forms and the trends they set ? Christ, the bouncer at our local gig club, the one I went to see SX, told us "the older metal crowd was no big deal, some of the kids that come to these hardcore shows come just to punch someone in the face". Im not kidding, thats what he said. Sorry my gen. was not like that, a bunch of too late for the hippy party wanna be love in freak pussies ? Maybe, but I'd rather think we had a better understanding of respectful communication.

    Some just agreed, parents need to stop blaming outside influences for fucked up kids
    Could not a parent say kids need to stop blaming parents for their being fucked up ?

    Its not all bad, I have realized now for along time looking at my generation that in the end most of us grew up to be responsible adults and I know that is still true. But these teenage years are far more trying today than 30 years ago. The biggest fear back then was we would all end up being long haired hippy freak "junkies". Today the problem is more of bad attitude, disrespect, nasty pissed off for no apparent reason stuff, so please tell me where it comes from ?

    I dont care, no longer my problem, so dont everyone get all stressed out with me, just know that it is a realistic concern. As for parenting.... many of you's time is on the rise, lotsa luck suckers ! lol All these simple answers that seem rational today, vanish ever so quickly, and the hair begins to fall out, the face begins to age, and you ponder this voyage
     
  17. CorpseDeception

    CorpseDeception Valar Morghulis

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    Wish I was old and a little sentimental.

    I read somewhere once that high-IQ families have an average of 1.5 children while low-IQ families have an average of 5 children. Maybe a small contributor to the issues with "kids these days" are dropping IQs and rising rates of autism and similar diseases.
     
  18. OfSinsAndShred

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    +9,000 I really can't say anything better than this. I feel exactly the same way.
     
  19. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Member

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    Whoa there! Classic Disney is some of the worst stuff you can have your daughter watch.
     
  20. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    thanks for the verification of something I was talking about eariler.

    According the the popular, non parent (havent been there) vote it doesnt matter what a kid watches or is exposed too
     

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