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Oh noes, the sky is falling in Europe!!!!!

Discussion in 'Nevermore' started by Dead Winter, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter STAHP

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    Hai guise, am I the only one living in Europe who feels rather unaffected by the "crisis"? This is a question for Europeans living in Europe. Has your quality of life been severely impacted by the crisis like the media seems to be going on about incessantly? Honestly, I'm not seeing it. Nothing has really changed for me. Sure, taxes have gone up and things are a bit more expensive now, but it seems to affect those making MUCH, MUCH more money than the average person. IN FACT, being freelance, I'm getting MORE jobs now than I was before. I'm working less and earning more than I was a few years ago, to be honest.

    Your views? Is it just me, or is all this European financial crisis being blown just a bit out of proportion?
     
  2. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    My life hasn't been impacted AT ALL, apart from the fact that too many taxes go to banks.

    However, I'm not sure it's been "blown out of proportion". There might be a bit too much wolf-crying, but if this crisis continues, it could have serious consequences for Europe. I'm not talking in a year, but still, it should be resolved if we want to stay prosperous.
     
  3. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter STAHP

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    Same here.

    Of course I am in complete accord with you Stormo. They need to get a handle on things if in twenty years we want to remain prosperous, but at the same time I don't think the sky is going to open up and rain fire upon the land if it doesn't get resolved. If worse comes to worst, they'll just go back to their original individual currencies. Hell, people here are already screaming to go back to the lira. Italy got majorly fucked when it went to the Euro; literally the prices of everything doubled overnight while the pay stayed the same. The banks said, "Ok, 20 mille lire (the equivalent of 10 euros) is now 20 euros." Things would improve if we went back to the lira, but there would be problems as well. Now that globalization is in full swing and all of Europe borrows, pays, and purchases from each other on relative equal footing under the euro, it would complicate consumerism to go back to individual currencies, which would impact the individual economies differently.

    Still, I wonder if it would be worth it.
     
  4. DarkGift

    DarkGift ov Doom

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    haven't noticed it much either... ask a greek guy and i'm sure he'll give you another answer though :p
     
  5. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter STAHP

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    Well, people could say the same thing about Italy, even though Italy is too big to bail out and is actually solvent. Italy makes more than it spends...it's just that it has to reign in more spending. Honestly, nothing has really changed for me, but I think the difference between Europe and American crises is the fact that people are still afforded education, medical care, etc., whereas in the states if they lose their job, they can literally lose their life if they don't have insurance and they develop health problems.

    Plus Italians just don't give a fuck about anything but themselves. Nothing will ever interrupt eating, drinking, and partying for them. Hell, in the south they haven't done shit for years because they're a bunch of lazy pieces of shit. Glad I live in the north. Now I'm loling hard because they've finally cracked down on all the people cheating on their finances and taxes...and surprisingly (or not) the majority of the people found guilty are the very rich. They're fucking morons. They drive around in Ferraris and Lamborghinis and claim they made like 25,000 euros last year.

    I don't know about you guys, but our problem here is there are too many old people. Once they all start dying off, things will change drastically for the better. The only problem is that Italy has such a high life expectancy, :lol:.
     
  6. Mr.Sister

    Mr.Sister Member

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    Nothing at all, except that a lot of Europeans start to hate Germans again. But honestly: I think there's still more to come.

    Oh: and every idiot thinks he's a specialist in modern economics now.
     
  7. refraction

    refraction Member

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    Switzerland hasnt felt shit, but thats usually the way it is. For the most part I feel its just the media being the media, blowing everything out of proportion so they can make eye-grabbing headlines, not realizing or not caring about the damage they do.
     
  8. osiris8

    osiris8 Bedroom Guitarist

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    Swedish economy is good, but since we're not a large country the crisis in other parts of Europe is starting to show as cautiousness (housing market is going stale etc.)
     
  9. refraction

    refraction Member

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    Someone just told me that the unemployment in Kosovo is 45%.
     
  10. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter STAHP

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    Yeah but that's probably due to people still killing each other in the streets and having to be occupied.
     
  11. Pitiless Wanderer

    Pitiless Wanderer Active Member

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    It completely depends on what you mean by 'affected', and how strongly you identify with socialism and/or free market capitalism. You may not feel it in your bank account (yet) but in ideology you could be greatly unnerved. Also, don't speak so soon. There's still much more to come, I think, in austerity measures for more Euro countries.
     
  12. Pitiless Wanderer

    Pitiless Wanderer Active Member

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    Even China is starting to feel slowdown; they just cut interest rates here for the first time in years.
     
  13. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    It's the slow down of growth not a total collapse.

    I've actually done better. The crisis opened up a lot of opportunities for me which I've been able to take advantage of.
     
  14. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter STAHP

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    Same here. Doors have been opening up left and right for me and even other people I know who are freelance or consultants. It's a little poetic justice since we were always getting the shitty end of the stick in terms of working contracts and such.

    From my small world of rational thinking, I would hazard a guess that these times are growing pains for a burgeoning and extremely young union of countries. The EU has only been around for about 20 years or so, even less. The EU seems to be discovering the limitations of welfare states in the modern age and are trying to find a balance between providing services to its citizens, keeping unemployment down, and keeping a balanced budget. It's not easy, and mistakes have been made along the way. This is to be expected. Many countries have only just been democracies for fewer years than I've been alive, much less having a functioning capitalist economic system.

    The blame doesn't lie completely with the politicians, however. Citizens have long enjoyed sucking on the teat of fixed work contracts, governmental supplements for pay when you get laid off, and relatively low taxes to pay for all of it. Yet, no one was asking where all this money was coming from and no one was asking how long it would last, but everyone sure as shit is pissed off now that they have to pay for it. While people weren't concerned about secondary skills and even tertiary skills applicable to the job markets, they just kept going ahead, day after day with the same job they had always had, without a care in the world. Meanwhile, people who updated their core skills, learned new skills that were applicable to the times, ended up rather unscathed by the crisis.
     
  15. Pitiless Wanderer

    Pitiless Wanderer Active Member

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    The stagnant wages are the worst part. I have friends in Italy who drool at the prospect of making 1500 Euro a month...
     
  16. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter STAHP

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    Yes, and this is what I'm talking about. They want to make American-type wages but don't want to take American-type risks. They want the money and want a job they can't get fired from, and what happens when the government tries to change it to get a little competition in the market? They start rioting in the streets. "Oh noes! You mean I can get fired from my job if I don't do a good job? Fuck that! I'll settle for 800 euros per month as long as I can't get fired!". Monti's turning everything much more competitive market and Italians are so business-sense retarded that they can't understand that in a meritocracy, the more you produce, the more you're rewarded.

    Italians are fucking dumb when it comes to making money. Most of them don't know how to make money without fucking people, and they think that the secret to making money is fucking people. That's where I swoop in like fuckin' Superman and take all their jerbs, money, and opportunities because I know how to manipulate my own skills and am flexible enough to work in almost any environment. I make 1000 euros a month in one job working two days a week, and I have three to four other free days to use how I want. I can either teach more classes for another 1000 per month or since I'm perfectly comfortable with working twice a week and 1000 euros per month, I can just sit on my ass, play with my dog, ride my motorcycle, play video games, practice guitar, and stay out all night every other night if I want to. That's because I learned as many skills as I could, took advantage of as many benefits as possible, and stayed as flexible as possible.

    Italians are just lazy when it comes to working. That doesn't mean they don't work hard, that just means they don't understand the concept of a job or career. There are SOOOOOOO many FREE programs here in Italy that are paid for by the region to assist people in learning new skills that will help them immensely, but they'd rather watch fucking soccer and drink spritz. We're not talking about basketweaving either...we're talking about network administration, learning Cisco systems for IT, a multitude of languages from English to German to French to Mandarin to Japanese, and if these programs aren't free, they're like one euro per class or some shit. It's still not good enough for 'em because they'd rather just sit on their asses and bitch, so, like I said, I swoop down and scoop up those jerbs like Superman. I don't have a degree, I've only spoken Italian for 5 years, and I'm STILL able to take advantage of the skills I have in order to live comfortably, while there are many more Italians with much thicker CVs than I have who can't do shit...partly because they don't want to and partly because they don't know anything because they're scared to death of failure. People here don't understand that failing at something is just an excuse to try something different.

    Now I'm merciless to them all. I never fail to point out the fact that a stupid American immigrant is taking their jerbs and there's nothing they can do about it, and that it's their own fault. The odds were stacked against me when I got here, but I networked, I studied Italian, I learned other skills, I took advantage of the opportunities available to me, and now I can do whatever the hell I want to do, and jobs ask ME when I want to work and ask ME how much I'd like to be paid instead of telling me.

    There IS a meritocracy in Italy, it's just that Italians don't know how to use it. They don't know how to make themselves indispensable. A person like John, who will do almost any job asked of him and has a hunger for learning new things, would thrive here. I have Italian friends who don't believe in the hype that other Italians are complaining about, and they're multimillionaires because they can do ANYTHING. Narciso started out selling used cars and now he's a private security systems specialist who owns his own company and who is inventing a new type of green energy generator. His attitude has always been "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE" and he will tell you that every day. Do you know why? Because he has a hunger for learning and knows how to manipulate his skills to fit with the job market. He can do anything.

    Italy is wide open for innovation and growth, the problem is that it's full of Italians who want everything given to them without having to change their lifestyle. I tell them that if they want to work in a factory their entire life making the same wages and not getting fired, that's fine, but don't complain when you become obsolete.
     
  17. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    That's true for a fair number of the countries in the EEA which are currently experiencing difficulties. Central and Northern Europe is certainly more innovative and industrious.
     
  18. azal

    azal love is the answer

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    well, I live in a pretty poor country in transition where the average wage is pretty low, but I'm doing ok. I'm sure my wage is not even a third of what you guys in more civilized countries make, but it's like 3 or 4 times higher than the average wage in serbia, so I'm doing alright. my hustle is strong.
     
  19. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    My salary is about 3 times the Czech average, but that still puts me considerably below the average in Germany and Britain.

    Woe unto use who live in backward countries! :)
     
  20. azal

    azal love is the answer

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    you considering brutal assault this year dude?
     

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