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Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by Postulate, Sep 8, 2010.
NICE and so true.....
As far as prog metal well oiled machines go, to me the flagship bands of the last decade are Symphony X, Fates Warning, and Sieges Even. There have been some dynamite masterpieces such as Redemption's "The Fullness Of Time" and Moon Of Steel's "Insignificant Details" but I dislike much of what passes for typical prog metal these days.
DT ARE faux prog metal for the past decade because much of what they do now is pointless multimetered wanking without merits. That isn't prog no matter how many people say it is. That's like putting every single jar and spice can in the cupboard into a pan and calling it spaghetti sauce. The people who disagree with me can say that they are prog until they are blue in the face. It doesn't matter. They, like many of the bands today, miss the entire point of what prog is all about.
On further reflection, I think I would now classify DT under the category of Shake The Baby Prog(a term I just coined specifically for them[though I'm sure there's others]). :Spin:
Your opinions are cool because I usually agree with them, hruhurhu!
On an unrelated note you should check this band out:
They've got a lot of songs you can listen to on their website. They're involved with some Mostly Autumn dudes I think and Heather did some guest vocals or something I dunno lols.
My favorite song is Start Again :Shedevil:
So yeah it's pretty Mostly Autumn-ish.
Many good points.
For me DT just has more musical dimensions to them than SX. As was mentioned previously, SX have their sound and they don't deviate too far from it..which isn't a bad thing by any means. But with Six Degrees and everything prior, DT manages to cover a large scope sonically and musically. To me that has always been a key to their "progressiveness".
This holds true for both a stand alone song as well as a record as a whole...
Awake is extremely broad, as is Scene's and 6DOIT. I can't think of any SX album with that breadth.
Part of me also can't help to subconsciously include LTE when I think of DT(Levin didn't bring too much imo) and their music adds even more depth.
Regardless, it's all good and I'm totally into both bands. I do get defensive on Dream Theater's behalf though
And personally, I'm all about the bookends to The Count of Tuscany - the main verses and chorus I could defintely live with out. But the intro and outro (from the Gilmour section on) are golden.
At least they're not some Yngwie cover band. Oh, wait ....
Dream Theater are (were?) capable of making good music but they choose to suck.
Thought I'd drop by again... Hi.
While its sad that MP has gone, I must admit I wasn't disappointed at all... I've always associated the heavier, angrier direction of recent times with MP. I'm actually quite excited to hear who they get on drums, I've not doubt they can find someone who can play what he played and more, but also from a songwriting point of view, I reckon with JP at the helm and hopefully more input from JR and JM they might have a more SFAM like sound again... Or at least more prog-rock sort of stuff. I also won't be even slightly sorry not to hear MP doing backing vocals, or listening to his angst-filled lyrics, hopefully we get some more input from JM on the lyrics side with JP, I've always considered his lyrics the most thoughtfully written.
ps, goddamn Fullness of Time was an awful album. Emo disguised as metal.
Here's the crux of the matter gents (and ladies): You can all argue till you are blue or even purple in the face that Dream Theater is/are/was a very important and influential band. However, you must allow your mind to separate that from your perception of any current album. This is true for all bands. Awake, Images and Words, these were great albums. I will not and have not ever said otherwise. But I would be doing Dream Theater, and all other bands, a disservice to let my view of those albums obfuscate fair judgment on their other work, including their most recent stuff.
Here's an example: I am a massive fan of just about every Marillion album made. But that doesn't stop me from saying that Fish's lyrics could be hit or miss, or that Somewhere Else is not even in the same league as the rest. Blind fanaticism is the enemy of truth, the enemy of reality, and the enemy of intelligent critique. So neither usher me in with the DT haters, who have always been fashionable DT haters, nor their counterpoint, the DT fanboys who believe and will defend, stupidly, though they have not an iota of a personal stake in it, that DT can do no wrong.
Make no mistake.
^ Spot on.
Dan, welcome back. I too would like to see the band make some tastefully-made prog rock music.
I want JP's playing/tone to cut on the so called heaviness and go back to the Images and Words days, I want Jordan Rudess to revisit the SFAM days, and I want James LaBrie to shut the hell up and be replaced.
The good outweighs the bad on that one. Say what you will about a couple of the songs(and I hear you) on Side 1; but "Sapphire" and the title track are pretty fuckin' good(especially Part IV: Transcendence).
Another band that I forgot to mention who have made more than worthy prog is Hourglass.
Blind anything is the real human enemy(blind love, blind faith, etc). At the beginning of the last decade, I thought DT was truly one of the prog GREATS. But when 6DOIT came out, that all changed. I returned that terrible excuse for a magnum opus the very next week. And everything that they have produced since lacks any of the songwriting prowess that they had on SFAM and prior.
I judge things based on merit. If it was fashionable to start disliking DT in 2002, I wasn't in any way aware. I don't think that I can in any way be branded as a trendy DT hater. Point blank: DT have lost their musical fulcrum no matter how much one wishes that it were not so or more so than it really is.
And LaBrie can go cut some lines with Lindsay Lohan for all I care(though I've heard he doesn't share) as long as he quits making music entirely.
^6DOIT was, to me, actually one of there better releases. I thought ToT was neat in that it was cool to hear them take a more of a full-on heavy approach, but it was when they took that approach and overdid it/pushed it too far in the wrong directions that I wasn't on board anymore. Not a fan of Octavarium, Systematic Chaos has some cool moments, and same for BC&SL as far as I'm concerned...but I haven't listened to any of the last 3 releases in their entirety since release day.
Dan- great to see you back here man, come by more often! I miss the days when the Musician's Corner was still a hopping place!
They did do a good job of covering Zebra and Dixie Dregs; I'll give you that.
Hey mate, yeah not spending as much time on metal forums of late, but thought there'd most likely be some interesting conversation related to DT, and hopefully the new SX fairly soon...
I actually think the Queen tune(s) was the standout track from that album, covers and originals.
Ah yeah, I knew I forgot one. I think that Symphony X would do a definitively superior version of "Flick Of The Wrist" as well as "Princes Of The Universe" if they were so inclined.
I thought I was the only one who owned the Moon of Steel Disc.
Hammers of Misfortune
These are just a few of the many great prog bands that have come out with discs these past few years that you're missing out on...
Yeah, I do like To-Mera quite a lot. Many of those others you've mentioned don't exactly have the cleanest vocals so I've got to be in the right mood to hear them.
I wouldn't mind seeing Hammers Of Misfortune live though. They are a very interesting San Fran band. I've been listening to them since the early 00's.
I actually only dug the first song on Fullness. Honestly. Sapphire especially drips with emo lyrics and lackluster arrangement. I argued quite a bit with the band when it came out, because I LOVED the debut and couldn't see the direction they were going as positive. But hey, if they want to be Fates Warning's watered-down cousin, then I can just continue to spin the self titled disc and ignore the rest of them. Basically another example of what I said earlier about DT. I don't like s/t less because of their change, and s/t does nothing to prop up those other albums for me.
Hourglass has moments, but as a whole they sound like what they are: amateurs. The moments are quite good though.
The ending of Transcendence on Fullness of Time made me "what"