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Preparing your tracks for reamping: A Guide

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Glenn Fricker, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. Soundlurker

    Soundlurker Member

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    Quite true. Technique and the right amount of force are required for a good tone.

    All of you should do a simple experiment: grab your guitars (even if it has old strings like in my example) and record a few palm mutes. For the first take play softly or even as if you're lazy, then play the same thing with a lot of attack. You will be amazed at how much cleaner and articulated the second take will sound... to a degree it's similar to the difference between a cheap DI and a good one.

    Here's the example (just some palm mutes, don't expect a song or anything ;) ):
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1891957/DIST_A.mp3
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1891957/DIST_B.mp3

    Here's the raw DI
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1891957/DI_A.mp3
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1891957/DI_B.mp3
     
  2. TomatoMetal

    TomatoMetal New Metal Member

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    Ok, you don't know the answer ;)
     
  3. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    mmm.. what's a bout using active pkups (emg-81) with the LOW-Z instrument input of the PreSonus FP10?
     
  4. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    A little question for you guys :

    I did my first reamp try a couple of days ago, plugging my Schecter Hellraiser C1-FR (EMG81 in the bridge) in the LittleLabs RedEye phantom 3D (DI mode, passive input), then going to my RME Fireface UC mic preamp channel input.
    When looking at this channel input level meters in TotalMix (the RME virtual mixing console kind of), i had to use +22dB of preamp gain on that channel so that i could reach a max peak at approx. -3dB...
    +22dB preamp gain seems like a lot to me and it seems i did everything right and by the books (and my DI recorded track looks and sounds fine)... is that "normal" ?
     
  5. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    none?
     
  6. deLuther

    deLuther Member

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    It seems OK, many DI boxes have gain reduction of 20 db or so and maximum input level at zero gain is +10 dbu (according to FF UC specifications).
    So it`s not strange.
     
  7. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Thanks !

    After reading your answer i went back reading the RedEye user manual and found this (which confirms what you told me) :

    "redeye 3D phantom :

    instrument / re-amp out and level trim :

    This is the high impedance instrument output on the front of
    the Redeye 3D. This is in DI mode the "thru" to the amp. In re-amp
    mode this is your re-amp output to the amp. The adjacent instrument/
    re-amp level trim works as an attenuator just like the volume control on
    your guitar and works in the thru and the re-amp out mode.

    When using the unbuffered instrument input this output in DI
    mode will be -3dB from what is plugged in
    , so in other words you lose
    a small amount of level. If you attempt to use this on a passive pick up,
    it will seem like more because of the combination of loading the pick
    up and this small level loss. The 3dB loss is due to travelling thru the
    internal electronics passively.

    mic level male xlr out :

    This is the output of the DI section of the Redeye 3D Phantom, what
    comes out here is a lo impedance (500 ohm) balanced signal approximately
    18dB below what is plugged into the instrument inputs
    . It should be plugged
    into a microphone preamplifi er and if you are using the active buffered
    input the microphone preamplifi er should have phantom power engaged.

    Understanding gain structure in recording is important. Keep
    in mind a passive pick up guitar puts out anything from -10dB to -25dB.
    Going thru a mic level direct box like the Redeye 3D drops this level
    by another 18dB so you need a microphone preamplifi ers gain set anywhere
    from +32dB to +47dB to get a +4dB (0VU) line level signal."



    So 3dB + 18 dB = 21dB of gain reduction already, so adding +22dB of preamp gain on the mic preamp makes perfect sense then.
     
  8. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    i'm just workin with DI before reamping.. i have a couple of questions for you..

    1 - i'm using elastic audio for quantizing.. i found really difficult this part.. because if i quantize right on the attack of the note everything sounds too much early.. tips? how do you recognize the right point for placing the marker and quantize?

    2 - how do you use melodyne? do you melodyne all the track or only some point of it? ho do you set melodyne?

    3 - how do you work with timing and pitch with bass DI? the same of guitar?

    at the moment i have all quantized.. but "something" still sounds wrong.. like too pushed or too early.. quite randomly.. i'm trying to find the right way to fix this.. plz help me.. really really tks a lot.
     
  9. Brett - K A L I S I A

    Brett - K A L I S I A Dreaded Moderator

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    This will not help and I'm sorry but I find your questions amusing when I read your signature :)
     
  10. SickBoy

    SickBoy Croatian Panzer division

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    My thoughts exactly :)
     
  11. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    what's about my signature?

    ps: i got this work already recorded. no way to record things better.
     
  12. SickBoy

    SickBoy Croatian Panzer division

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    I guess Brett and myself found the line "playing music BETTER" amusing, given your questions :D
    The guys/girls who've done the tracks aren't really home on their instruments apparently... I've recorded some lousy players but never had to timestretch or melodynize the stringed instrument tracks. Good luck! :headbang:
     
  13. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    lol.. never used melodyne on bass/guitar? me too.. :rofl:
     
  14. tenebre

    tenebre Member

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    are there some studios that do professional re-amping? I certainly do not own all the amps I would like t use in particular song and this would be very useful to get another tone w/o buying tons of new gear.
     
  15. Brett - K A L I S I A

    Brett - K A L I S I A Dreaded Moderator

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    Yes here you will find many people including myself that offer this service at various rates.
     
  16. westicle

    westicle New Metal Member

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    Hi

    Westy here, long term lurker, first time poster. I'm about to do my first bit of re amping.

    I have a plan for guitar,

    Record: Gibson SG --> Countryman DI --> DAW
    Re amp: DAW --> Radial Pro Re amp box --> Guitar Rig --> Mic --> DAW

    But....

    I'm not sure about bass because our guy uses a load of pedals.

    Ideally I want to be able to record a DI signal from the bass itself and also a signal after it's been through his fuzz and wah.

    I do have a Hughes & Kettner Red Box Classic which I bought before doing any research on this stuff so I do have 2 DI boxes at my disposal. Preservation of the signal quality is paramount though so I'm more than happy to ditch that and replace it with something better if needed.

    Do I need 2 DI boxes and split the signal straight out of the bass or am I missing some really obvious solution that's right in front of me?
     
  17. SoundLoc

    SoundLoc Welcome to Morbid Reich

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    Hi,

    Some time ago, I bought Radial reamping kit (J48 and Xamp). Now that I have finished MIDI drum tracks, I'm gonna take care of the guitars and bass. I wonder how to put it all together with Eleven Rack and Fireface 800 to Logic. I mean, I have a plan in my head, but I thought that without revealing that to you I would ask you for your view on this. Without knowing my plan/setup your opinion will be totally unbiased and perhaps I will learn sth new. Pls let me know what your views are.
     
  18. JakeAC5253

    JakeAC5253 Frozen Sun Audio

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    Well, there are two ways that you could do this:

    1. You can take DI's from the bass straight into the DI box, then once the performance is recorded you can use the reamp box to send the DI through the floor pedals and directly back to the DI box and into a separate track for recording. I do this a lot with guitar and bass tracks. The only caveat is the wah might not sound exactly the same when reamped as it does with the bass hooked directly into it, but it may sound similar enough that it won't make much of a difference. Hopefully your bass player is an easygoing guy.

    2. You can split the output of the bass using an active split which is transformer isolated. Something like the Lehle Dual. After the split the signal routing is quite obvious. One side goes to the first DI box then DAW and the other side goes through the pedals and then the DI and DAW.

    First way is cheaper :D

    I'd love to help you, but I'm afraid I've got no idea what you are asking.
     
  19. SoundLoc

    SoundLoc Welcome to Morbid Reich

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    In short, how to connect xamp, j48 and Eleven for guitar tracking for reamping and then how to connect the gear for reamping proper. And what setup for guitars and what setup for bass. I hope it is clearer now.
     
  20. westicle

    westicle New Metal Member

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    Thanks Jake, I can see how they would both work. I'd probably go for the second option though as I'd like to capture the playing and the pedal/wah changes all in the same go.

    As it turns out I bought the reamp box for doing guitars but couldn't get it to work. We've decided to go down the recording everything as normal route without re amping. I've sold the red box and the x-amp and bought some monitors.

    We'll be recording bass next week. I've just got to work out how I want to mic that up now....:D
     

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