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Preparing your tracks for reamping: A Guide

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Glenn Fricker, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    about tuning everything before reamping: what's about placing an ANTARES AUTOTUNE EFX, with soft EFX on each bass/gtr DI?

    tks a lot!
     
  2. satanismyguide

    satanismyguide New Metal Member

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    Hi there, i'm new in this forum and in the reamp world, so please don't insult me if i say something wrong. or do it, if it please you.

    So, i've already recorded all the guitars with this configuration:

    guitar --> DI --> Mixer --> DAW (M-audio 410)

    now it's time to do the reamp and i just found out that my DAW doesn't have balanced output. i mean, since it was designed by a troll it has 8 outputs and all are unbalanced.

    so, what are your advice/suggestions about going to my Reamp box (still unsure if it's gonna be a Radial PRORMP or X-amp, it depends if i want to eat or not next month) from an unbalanced output?
    i thought about some options:

    1) DAW --> DI (used as a normal DI, not a reversed one) --> REAMP , but phase problems? output signal loss? noise added?

    2) DAW ---> mixer (mackie 1202) ---> REAMP but, output signal loss? noise added?

    3) DAW headphones output (since it's balanced). i'm not really sure why but i know this option sounds really stupid and won't work (it's a stereo output OK I KNOW, but maybe... ??¿¿¿)

    4) buying beers and get drunk

    5) buying a new DAW (it's about time) with balanced output and a smile on the interface.


    Any suggestion will be really appreciated!

    Thanks in advance

    Michele
     
  3. CosmoHack

    CosmoHack New Metal Member

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    Couldn't read it in depth because, at the moment, I have to go. But I think that the first thing you should do is to reconsider that when you say "DAW", you really mean "interface".

    DAW is a Digital Audio Workstation, hardware based or computer-based, like ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo...

    Interface is the hardware you use to enter the audio into the computer (uses to be a soundcard, AD/DA...).

    In your case, I think you should go like this:

    Guitar --> DI Box --> M-Audio --> DAW

    Or, if you don't have a DI Box:

    Guitar --> M-Audio --> DAW

    About the balanced outputs, worry about them if you are going to use the reamp to send the clean signal back to a guitar amplifier and you have a long distance between the source and the destination. In other cases, like computer-reamping (Guitar Rig, etc), you can work without it.
     
  4. satanismyguide

    satanismyguide New Metal Member

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    Hi there thanks for your answer.
    yeah, i think that i messed a little bit with the DAW concept.
    anyway, the real problem is the unbalanced output of my interface. i'm gonna reamp sending the clean signal to my guitar amplifer (no computer reamping).
    I'll try to have the shortest distance possible between my output and the REAMP, but how can i exit from the M-audio as unbalanced and arrive at the Reamp input as balanced? I mean, which would be the best way in order to avoid as much as possible signal loss and added noise? I could buy a new interface if it's worth, but that would be the only reason to buy it.
     
  5. CosmoHack

    CosmoHack New Metal Member

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    You need the DI Box to convert the unbalanced signal to balanced.
    So, once everything is recorded, send it this way:

    DAW -> Interface -> DI Box -> Amp

    But again, you may need another DI Box to send the signal captured from the miked amp back into the interface.

    So: one DI Box to send the signal, and another one (or two, three.. it depends on how many mics you use) to receive it processed back on the DAW.
     
  6. satanismyguide

    satanismyguide New Metal Member

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    OK, as i thought the DAW -> Interface -> DI Box -> Amp can be the solution.
    but i can't really understand why i need to pass again through the DI in the chain MIC --> interface (where the input are balanced, only the output are unbalanced...).
     
  7. Trevoire520

    Trevoire520 Member

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    Yeah you don't need a DI box to get your mic signal to the interface.

    You miiiight just be able to use the unbalanced output of your interface and plug that into your reamp box. The signal will be a bit lower than if you'd used a balanced output but you might be able to compensate by boosting the level on your reamp box and tubescreamer. (If you're using a Radial Pro RMP then check out this mod to make sure you get the full strength signal out of it)
     
  8. satanismyguide

    satanismyguide New Metal Member

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    Thanks for your answers guys.
    The only reason i'm a little bit afraid of this process (together with the loss of dynamic and sound signal) is the huge hum/noise that i could create with all these passages. But anyway, i guess i just need to try it.
    I guess that i'll go with the Radial X-amp, X-mas is near.

    Michele
     
  9. Torgal

    Torgal guitar nerd

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    Hey guys!

    I finished my shootout for DI-boxes/reampers and ended up with the LL Redeye 3D Phantom. Now I'm handling the next problem. The annoying noise produced while reamping.

    Here's my signal chain:

    • ESI ESP 1010e analog output
    • LL Redeye 3d Phatom
    • Maxon OD808
    • Marshall JVM410HCF (out through FxSend)
    • ESI ESP 1010e analog input
    • LeCab2 (orange 2x12 & mf400a impulses)

    I set the output level of the DI-track to unity gain (thx DeLuther for your help!) and tweaked the amp until I liked the sound and got around -4dB of level on my recording interfaces input(without LeCab activated to get the real level).

    First thing I noticed was the absurd amount of hiss and noise comming out of the amp (and the monitored input channel). I figured out that the OD808 tubescreamer produced 90% of the noise. Without it its still a little bit worse than whith the input jack of the amp unplugged, but still OK. So I messed around with the tubescreamers controlls and found out that the tone knob directly "controlls" the hiss. The more I turned it up the more noise came out of my speakers. My favourite Settings are usually Overdrive 0, Balance 10, Tone 10 but to keep the hiss down I turned tone down to 7.
    Another thing I realised was that if I put a battery into the tubescreamer instead of a powersupply the hiss looses a good portion of level.

    I put 2 samples up where I did the following:

    • Tubescreamer off, groundlift deactivated, Di track muted
    • activate ground lift
    • switch on tubescreamer with tone 0
    • turn up tone to 10 and the back to 7
    • unmute the DI track and reamp the last bit of it

    Noisetest with powersupply
    Noisetest with battery

    Is there room for improvement? Surely there is, but how?:yell:
    How do you guys handle tubescreamers while reamping?
     
  10. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

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    Not sure if it's been addressed before, but still, i have a question about guitar DI signal levels when using real amps VS vst ampsims :

    1) For further reamping (mostly through "real" amps), we first record a guitar DI signal following the following recommendation :

    "Try setting your preamp's gain so that the absolute loudest part of the guitar's signal is peaking at about -3 to -4dB below the zero mark on your record meter. You're recording at 24 bit, so you have plenty of room before noise sets in. Don't try to get the level to zero, it'll cause you grief with overs. A dry guitar is very,very dynamic & unpredictable. -3 to -4 will work great."

    2) and then when reamping, we have to get this DI signal to the right level so that it goes into the "real" amp at the "appropriate level" (means the same level you have when plugging your guitar directly into the amp).

    My question is : what's the recommended signal level for step 2) when dealing with ampsims (LePou stuff, TSE stuff, etc) ou clean boost sims (such as TSS or TSE 808) ? Do you leave it at the recorded DI level (peaks at -3/-4), or do you need to take it to a different level (like you would do with "real" amps) ? If so (need to adjust the level so that it's not the "peaks at -3/-4" level anymore), do you use the ampsim "input" (volume) knob, or do you change the volume BEFORE the signal hits the ampsim ? Is there a difference between both anyway ?
    In other words, should we treat an ampsim the same way we treat a real amp, input volume-wise ?

    Then here is my second question : when using an ampsim as an effect on a DI track, and an impulse response right after in the FX chain, what kind of level is "appropriate" for your impulse response loader (be it Lecab, Recabinet, PI-101, ...) ? Something that peaks at -3/-4 ? (like the DI track) ? Do you use the "master volume"/"output volume" knob of your ampsim in such a way that you get a "peaks at -3/-4" signal out of it ?
     
  11. John Haddad (Shiva Industries)

    John Haddad (Shiva Industries) Dump Truck Repairs

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    You guys think it would be possible/wise to use the high z instrument input on my Apogee Duet 2 soley as an Instrument DI or should I use my Radial Pro DI in conjuction with the Apogee's preamp's? Reason for asking is I have to go mobile sometimes and not sure what the best equipment to use/bring we me to the clients location. Any thoughts on this matter would be awesome.:kickass:
     
  12. Dgrptr

    Dgrptr New Metal Member

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    I am using an apogee one and going DI with guitar into my interface .
    I am applying an instance of guitar rig 4 to my tracks and amp simulating.
    How can I tell if it is recording the DI signal Pre fx? Obviously I am disabling the guitar rig 4 and hearin the clean signal but stillborn
    Can I be sure that my clean signal is unyampered?
     
  13. MetalSir

    MetalSir Member

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    oh dudez,
    I made the reamp for my album and i can definitely confirm you that INPUT 1 and 2 of the PRESONUS FP10 (the second version, dunno if it's the same for the firepod) ARE DIs.
    I recorded guitar lines directly plugged in these lowz input and i remped everything using a reamp v2.
    all sounds perfectly.
     
  14. gumplunger

    gumplunger Member

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    Impulse responses are linear, meaning they don't take into account the dynamics of the input signal, so it doesn't really matter what your input level is as long as its not super low.
     
  15. JakeAC5253

    JakeAC5253 Frozen Sun Audio

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    Actually they are not. If you have an analyzer program which shows a waterfall representation of an IR (and maybe it's only the good ones) you can see how the EQ curve changes as a function of time. What variables affect how well this transfers to an actual difference in sound, I don't know.
     
  16. gumplunger

    gumplunger Member

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    Well yeah, the frequency curve of an impulse response varies over time, but its still going to react the same to a signal at -10db as it would with a signal at 0db. Whereas an amp is a non-linear system in that its going to respond differently to changes in the input signal.
     
  17. blackbull

    blackbull Member

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    Sorry for the noobery, but I dont get this:
    I have a Line 6 Pod. Is the pod a direct box or is that something I have to get additionally? I've experimented some with Podfarm, and what I did then was simply to record from input 3-8 which I thought was the pure raw signal. But this tutorial made it seem like it's not. Can anyone explain? :p
     
  18. SickBoy

    SickBoy Croatian Panzer division

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    Is that PodXT you're talking about?
    I own PodXT and its ASIO drivers support recording of the clean signal while monitoring/playing thru the effected/distorted signal, check the Control Panel of the ASIO driver. It's a form of DI recording but I suppose the quality is on the side of dedicated DI boxes and good quality mic preamps... But for home recording purposes it should do.

    You can always buy a good DI box (Radial, Countryman, LittleLabs etc.) later on along with a nice mic pre if you get more serious about it. ;)
     
  19. blackbull

    blackbull Member

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    It's the X3. I just searched my mac for "asio" and I got nothing, so I suppose OS X doesn't use those drivers? When I used pod farm I heard my playing simply from pod farm itself. I think I can also just plug the speakers into the pod and hear the distorted signal through that while listening to the drums from the macbook's speakers as well. Thanks for clearing things up.
     
  20. aviel

    aviel Member

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    ok.. sorry for bringing this thread up again..

    is there a good solution for a DI that can be used for both active and passive?
    i have one EMG equipped guitar, and a passive one, jackson, and a stratocaster.

    i was almost going to by the country man 85 but then i realized i might get problems on highes peaks with the EMGs?
     

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