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pt drum edits, some quick tips clue me in?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by joeymusicguy, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. Andy Sneap

    Andy Sneap Metal Guru

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    I never bother with the show trigger times, just work through it 4 to 8 bars at a time in grid mode. It just sounds to me like you are just confused by a different approach as BD works great and I can be done with a super complicated track in a couple of hrs easy.
     
  2. ::XeS::

    ::XeS:: Member

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    Show trigger time mode is usefull if the take is a little out of time in some hit and BD recognizes it like it should be after or before the right position. In this way you're shure that you will not have to come back and re-doing the edit.
     
  3. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    this.
    i thnk some of you may be confusing trigger times with the trigger points.
     
  4. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    by the way Andy, if its not an UTTER nightmare, whats your approach to bding? do you use collection? or two edit groups, one for shells and one for whole kit? interesting to know for sure, as im gonna knock up a video so people can stop asking questions!
     
  5. Andy Sneap

    Andy Sneap Metal Guru

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    for standard beats I just group the whole kit and for double kick sections i group kicks and the top of the kit separately. I always work in grid mode, if a hit at the start of the selection I'm doing is before the area selected I just nudge the section back so it is behind the grid, it seems BD prefers this. I don't go over board either, I dont necessarily BD every single hit. If it sounds good with the snare landing on the grid and the kicks move slightly then so what? Y'know what , a drummer played it! shock horror. So to answer your questions, no I dont use collection mode, 2 edit groups for fast double kick sections and I dont show trigger times when editing.
     
  6. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    ^ I do it EXACTLY the same way, down to the detail. Works great. Never used collection mode in my life. Editing takes anywhere from 1 to 3 hours per song, depending on how complex/poorly played it was. That's when doing every single hit.

    EDIT: Just wanted to add that it always sounds to me that people are overthinking this process when these threads come up. Quite honestly with PT and Beat Detective it's all intuitive. Work a few bars at a time, check your trigger points, if something isn't catching, or moving wrong then adjust it manually prior to BD. Consider doing fills/complex/interlaced triplet/normal parts with ye trusty tab to transient, manual cutting and quantization tools. Sometimes I even just slip mode for the complex bits to 'approximate' the correct note values, as it can retain a better sense of feel than hard quantizing.
     
  7. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    fair enough.
    do you use the whole kit edit group when detecting the transients? i found it a bit flakey and more likely to catch cymbals otherwise!
    good to know andy. cheers mate
     
  8. Andy Sneap

    Andy Sneap Metal Guru

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    no I use whole kit and I forgot to mention I have it set to cut 15 milliseconds before transient and use a crossfade of 5 ms, this usually works a treat
     
  9. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    15 ms trigger pad.... interesting..... always a bit of trial and error finding the sweet spot, but i may try that!
    also on a vaugely related not; in another thread you mentioned you used CMD+E to seperate things... do you not use key command focus?
     
  10. Andy Sneap

    Andy Sneap Metal Guru

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    never heard of key command focus, just used to my way of working, I dont even have to think what I'm doing I'm so used to working a certain way.
     
  11. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    fair play mate.. same here.
    its the one button short cut thing.... so z is undo x is cut etc etc without having to press the CMD key
     
  12. loki_s_anger

    loki_s_anger New Metal Member

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    I may be off topic, but why don't you guys use the new elastic time quantize function (with the rythmic algorythm)... It just does the same things BD does, but maybe four times quicker and with very good results.
     
  13. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    doesnt sound anywhere near as good and ruins the phase relationship between mics.
    maybe okay for a cowboy job. but not for Professional recording
     
  14. AudioGeekZine

    AudioGeekZine arsehole know-it-all

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    It simply doesn't sound as good.
     
  15. loki_s_anger

    loki_s_anger New Metal Member

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    Just try to make an edit group of ALL your drum tracks, and all your drum hits will move at the same time, so no phase issue anymore.
     
  16. AudioGeekZine

    AudioGeekZine arsehole know-it-all

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    yeah no shit. :rolleyes: It's not that simple. The fact is it still doesn't sound as good as chopping regions.

    EA just as way too much of this
     
  17. daveyukon

    daveyukon New Metal Member

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    before i start a song, i usually just copy a sample of a clean kick in the song. Then i group the drums and start at the starts and ends of bars. Make sure the first hit is ON the grid, might have to chop and move it. I'll take a look at the bars and see if the drummer was fast or slow. Drummers seems to either be slow, on, or fast, in a consistent manner. I'll move a large chunk of drums to make sure everything is kindaaaa close to where they should be. This might mean 8 bars fast, 8 bars on, 4 bars slow(trying to compensate for being too fast.) Then highlight from bar to bar, adjust sensitivity to pick up the majority of hits, seperate with a 6ms pad, comform, then smooth with a 3ms fade. The reason i copy a kick is if i see a rough doubkick going or rough triplets and quads, I go through quickly and paste new kicks, then proceed with BD on the rest of the kit excluding the kick track. If the kicks are well played and not interfering with the snares, i just BD in group mode.
     
  18. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    time stretching screws with phase because the algorithms try to preserve transients and make a stretch sound natural by moving the samples in such a way that it couldn't possibly maintain phase. "stretching" and keeping something in phase may make sense in your head, but what you're seeing would result in stretching the sine wave, and thus a pitch bend. ever slowed down video before? and the audio gets the darth vader effect?? that's what a legit stretch is. time stretching as we know it in editing is an extremely complex algorithm that definitely modifies the source signal and (as of right now) is impossible to do across multiple tracks and maintain phase.

    that being said, i know as well as anyone how tempting/easy it is to edit multi-track drums with EA. and, in all honesty, even if these guys disagree, it can be passable if you're just gonna use rooms/OHs' and sample all your shells. although a long enough stretch will make noticable cymbal artifacts. edit in polyphonic, then render in x-form. keep cymbal samples on hand to doctor up an unfixably long stretch.
     
  19. soundsunderground

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    Watch my video on beat detective:

    http://vimeo.com/4883196

    It will give you the basics. This was kinda impromptu so I made a few minor mistakes (hard to talk and concentrate on the sonics at the same time). I have a lot of tricks and tips with BD that I did not include in this video, but it will get you started. This is THE fastest way to beat detect. I've been beat detecting for 6 years, I'm pretty much the king at beat detective.

    Simple 3:30 min pop songs take me about 18 mins to beat detect.

    Complicated metal songs such as the one here take me about 1 hr to beat detect, but it really depends on how good the drummer is.

    One big point of this video you should not miss is that 99-100% of your markers will be spot on the kick drum. It is mostly the snare markers you should worry about. If they are not spot on the top mic, usually they are spot on the bottom mic and the difference is speed of sound between the top and bottom mic which is negligible!

    Here's a tip:

    -a good, accurate mouse with a FAST scroll wheel
    -a comfortable keyboard that has F keys divided by fours, not threes.

    I also have techniques of doing really large sections at a time that beat detective typically will mess up. that'll be for another video. :loco:
     
  20. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    *facepalm* at "the rose hill". my god. sorry to be rude and off topic, i know you're just trying to help, but i really wish i hadn't clicked that.
     

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