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Religious freedom?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by HadesRagnazrath, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    It's already a pretty small portion of women that get post-viability abortions anyway, so that would be some kind of small moralist victory but in the end it wouldn't change too much.

    How would you even determine who does and doesn't fall into this category?
     
  2. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    Fair enough on the first point, but still, stopping post-viability abortions would be vital on a moralistic front if you ask me. I have friends that think it should be 16 weeks, and, while I don't share their views, I fully comprehend where they're coming from. As for the second one, I'm not sure, but if we could manage to determine it without being authoritarian, that'd be marvelous.
     
  3. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    I don't think it would be possible to do it without being authoritarian.
     
  4. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    I would hope there'd be some sort of way, but you're right, it doesn't seem likely. Which is a damn shame, so many of the poor little things getting thrown away just on the basis of some promiscuous jackoff being despicably irresponsible.
     
  5. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    That's life man, it's a hard road being a moralist. Probably why I'm not much of one myself.
     
  6. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    I'd never regard myself as moralistically hyper-vigilant, however, there are things I feel it's imperative to stand on scientifically factual moral principality on. Abortion being one of them. I can't stand the idea of nihilistic or morally relativistic principles being utilized as guiding systems, it's caustic and carcinogenic to society's very fabric. I'm an agnostic atheist, but I prize highly Nietzsche's system of revaluation of values and agreement that solid, principled values hold a key station of the utmost criticality to holding together a great society.
     
  7. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    The problem with moralism in relation to abortion is that, due to the nature of the topic, the opponent of the moralist view on abortion is the libertarian view, or the freedom view.

    In the end, I would rather the woman (owner of body) be able to choose over the state.
     
    #67 CiG, May 21, 2016
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  8. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    The thing is we're also dealing with human life. I'm socially libertarian in general, but I would argue that the defense of the life of its citizenry is well within the purview of the state doing its duty to provide necessary protections. A piece of a woman's bodily autonomy that does not concern life, death, severe harm, etc., to her, but that does concern the creation of human life, should probably default in favor of human life.
     
  9. bydeathsdesign

    bydeathsdesign Lord Belial

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    With the constitution granting freedom and the right to pursue happiness for all, this would indicate to me that the first Amendment allows for each individual to choose the religion they want, or none at all. Atheism isn't a religion, but would still come under the first Amendment. As an atheist myself, I have noticed that other atheists do tend to be arrogant and rude. This 'new atheism' is to me just as dogmatic and fundamentalist as the worst religion has to offer. Me, I don't care what a person believes, as long as they don't try to force it on me, or use the political system to do so. If that happens, then it's war.
     
    H.P. Lovecraft likes this.
  10. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    It's a huge problem. So many atheists I see are total spergish jackoffs who act in nothing short of a grotestquely cultish manner. So, in some ways, I entirely understand when some religious people think of atheism as a religion, being that so many atheists act that way. The "Is your friend an atheist? Don't worry, they'll tell you." joke comes to mind as almost an axiomatic statement of truth in some ways. Many atheists are also deeply entrenched in left-wing political values to the point where I'd like to puke as well. They're almost without failing, a pro-choice, anti-gun, pro-trans, pro-Bernie, etc. chode muncher. I could go on, but I feel I've made my point.
     
  11. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    That's flat out wrong. Rude? Yes. Willing to decapitate apostates, kill gays and oppress women? No.
     
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  12. Midas

    Midas Offended? Nobody cares.

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    Religious freedom tend to mean "the right to discriminate or do idiotic things because my shitty book says so".
    Want to pray to some worthless gods? Do it. As much as I think that nobody should because it is a sign of insanity, I think you should be able to.

    Want to make me pray, or force other people's lives with your bullshit (i.e try to get it into politics/law)? This is where I have a serious problem with it. Religion has been around for too long. The respect for "religious freedom" is too great and has ruined countries everywhere. Take a look at Iraq, Iran, the corrupt cunts in USA, Bangladesh and so on. It is about time that humanity ridiculed this mental disease off of this planet because it is demonstrably harmful.

    So... You should have the freedom to be mentally insane. (That's what it is. Faith is defined as belief without evidence. Only an idiot would believe x without evidence.)
    You should not have the freedom to force your mental insanity onto others. Keep it to yourself, and try to get rid of the fucking thing.
     
  13. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    Moronic landslide of words.

    You don't understand freedom and it's people like you that fuck up countries with extreme secularism, ie communist shitholes.

    Religious people are allowed to go into politics and if you think freedom of religion is a bad thing, you put yourself at risk with the other side of that coin, freedom from religion.

    Read a book.
     
  14. Midas

    Midas Offended? Nobody cares.

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    Democratic socialism is a wonderful thing. Secularism doesn't necessarily lead to communism which you seem ignorantly unaware of. Just look at Denmark, or Sweden, or Norway.

    Religious people are allowed to go into politics, nor did I say anything else, but they should not be allowed to push nonsensical religious agendas such as allowing discrimination of transgendered people and so on. If they do, they should have no place in the government.

    Secularism, and democratic socialism are a great things. You clearly do not live in such a place (yet) and seem ignorant of the subject as you went from connecting secularism directly to communism, which is an incorrect stance.

    Religion is like a pair of worn-out, rotting shoes.....They may fit for you, but don't force me to wear them.
     
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  15. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    I'm an atheist.

    I didn't connect secularism with communism, I said extreme secularism as in, purging religion from a country and then forming non-religious authoritarian states. That is what scumbags like you do.
     
  16. Midas

    Midas Offended? Nobody cares.

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    An atheist huh? Let's dance.

    Extreme secularism is an oxymoron.

    "That is what scumbags like you do."

    I have never done so, but it would be a good thing if religion was abandoned completely.

     
    #76 Midas, Jun 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  17. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    Why are you deflecting to the opinions of others? Typical card-carrying atheist lacking in their owns views, beliefs and moralities.
     
  18. Midas

    Midas Offended? Nobody cares.

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    I share his views. Instead of writing it all out, I'll just save a few minutes by doing that so I can do other things instead. You seem to be lacking an argument for your position.
     
  19. CiG

    CiG Harbinger of Metal

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    You don't even have an argument, by definition you have A.C. Grayling's argument in video form.

    Define "good thing" in the case of completely abandoning religion if you don't mind. I'm no friend of religion, but I don't see how you can make such a bold claim.
     
  20. The Butt

    The Butt Unholy gas, flares from my ass

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    Religion should stay out of government, I definitely agree on that.
     

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