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Should Marijuana be legalized?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Domk, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    Is it too difficult for you to just answer the question?

    I already showed you that the death rate and homicide rate of a country that has decriminalized weed is actually lower than the same stats in its neighboring countries. You, on the other hand, have shown no evidence whatsoever. You can shoot your mouth off all day long, but it doesn't prove anything if you're speaking from complete ignorance.

    Accepting of what truth? I'm the one who's actually showing evidence for what I'm saying. Since you are refusing to do the same, as well as ignoring the evidence I've presented to you, it looks like you're the one who's stubbornly clinging to his misinformed opinions. I believe things because they have a basis in reality, not because I simply want to believe them.

    Also, where did you even read that "for a fact it causes schizophrenia", and that this is somehow a huge health concern with weed? Again, you need to actually make some effort to show that you're not just parroting what some DARE officer told you in kindergarten.

    :lol: Okay, let's see. Believe some random idiot on the Internet or a scientific study that proves him wrong. Hmm, I think I'll go with the study.

    I'm just going to stop here, actually. If you're so brainwashed that you would look at the results of scientific studies and say "nuh-uh, dat's not troo" simply because they contradict your fantasy world of irrational beliefs then there is certainly no point in trying to convince you of anything. Have a nice day.
     
  2. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    Well I understand now. Rough Divide lives in Canada, where the government babysits the people, so he doesn't know how to think for himself.

    People who think this US health care bill is anything but control and prfit for big pharma (now there is the poison that needs to be outlawed) are idiots, but of course, you aren't even from the US, so what would you know about it other than what you hear on TV?
     
  3. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    Just as a follow-up, because I only now read your other post:

    And this proves what? The very sentence you bolded mentions two studies that reach different conclusions about whether cannabis causes cancer, and it doesn't even take into account the difference between smoking it and, say, vaporizing it. For all we know, you could just use a vaporizer to ingest the drug and the entire question of cancer would disappear.

    So? For all we know, that "increased risk" could mean 1 out of every million people who smokes it will develop schizophrenia. There's a health risk in any number of recreational activities, from playing video games (epilepsy, obesity) to baseball (concussions, broken bones, death) to dancing (sprains, concussions, heat exhaustion, dehydration). A simple risk is no reason to ban something unless it's a serious risk. Otherwise we'd be making all the aforementioned activities illegal.
     
  4. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    NO>> NO>> NO ! The way this works is

    John A came down with schizophrenia, it was found that he smoked pot, there by pot causes schizophrenia

    John B had a auto accident, it was found he smoked pot, there by pot causes auto accidents

    Joanie B had a auto accident, it was found that she did not smoke pot, we checked the urine of John C the man she slamed into the side of and found he did indeed smoke pot, there by we determined that his pot smoking was the cause of the accident

    Jonh C later developed cancer, knowing that he smoked pot, we determined pot causes cancer

    Interestingly my mother died of a brain tumor at 36 years of age, did not smoke pot, smoke tobacco, drink alcohol yet developed cancer. By further scientific data I could only conclude she developed this form of cancer because she ate red meat, white meat, vegatables, fruit... because one thing for sure is she did something wrong

    My fater died of blood cancer at 67, he did not smoke, drink but he too also ate food... most likely the cause

    Now me on the other hand, smoked weed and tobacco like a cole chimney, made it to 52 and cant die soon enough to get the fuck out of this pass the accountability ball assed world of pussy controled beaurocracy
     
  5. Badbird

    Badbird Never banned

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    Ayn Rand is dead hahahahaha
    This.
     
  6. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    I enjoy polite argument; but you're not only being rude, you're also being irrational. Cough syrup in fact contains so many chemicals that hinder our judgment that it clearly says "DO NOT OPERATE MACHINERY AFTER TAKING" right on the bottle. Perhaps if pot is legalized we can just put a warning label on the bottle. Would that solve your accusation that pot makes our roads more dangerous?

    Now, you might say that it doesn't because people will still use it, just as they use alcohol irresponsibly. Okay, so let's say we outlaw all possible factors that could make our roads more dangerous: should we also make it illegal for a person to drive who is over the age of sixty-five? Or should we make it illegal for people to drive motorcycles since they're more dangerous than enclosed vehicles, and people who drive motorcycles often drive irresponsibly?

    Cough medicine is comparible to marijuana. It's definitely comparable to alcohol in that it contains alcohol. Your position on substance abuse and the legality of marijuana promotes fear mongering and a negative attitude toward individuality that borders on insanity. Where would we draw the line with your philosophy?

    Also, please note that I refrained from using any offensive terms like "kill yourself" or "you're an idiot." Maybe you can show a little maturity and do the same...


    ...you fucking twat.
     
  7. SouthernTrendkill

    SouthernTrendkill Super Normie

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    Cough syrup is way stronger than pot. That shit is powerful! Mainly because of a little thing called dextromethorphan. :D
     
  8. Rough Divide

    Rough Divide Member

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    It got turned into an argument about tobacco and lung cancer when you said tobacco doesn't cause cancer, thus I proved you wrong. And how is there something wrong with my head? I'm being logical here, and on topic, obviously you have me confused with yourself.
    And boo hoo you got insulted, get over it honestly its nothing to cry or beat yourself over its the internet, if you're going to take every little insult someone says to heart then that's pathetic. Plus its a part of my process, something you may not seem to grasp or understand but that's your problem not mine.

    Why must I flame? The same reason others must act stupid, talk about nothing they know about and/or flame me.

    Also I did not take you for ignorant just because you're a pot smoker and quite frankly it's your choice to smoke it if you want to. That being said I feel there are far more productive ways to deal with stress... Rather than gradually tareing down your body. (and if you have any doubt of the facts I've told you Cite McGraw Hill Ryerson Biology text) It will eventually decrease your quailty of life and what has it done for your problems other than given you cheap thrills?. So go ahead smoke it... but before you do why not go for a run, write a song, study something outside your field, be productive and live your life.


    Atleast you still have enough passion to kill without weed, please ignorance? These are straight up FACTS you can get from a standard bio text book. Cannabis in short use makes you euphoric, and relaxed. Possitive effects over all, But (and when I say this I refer in particular to those who are long time users) eventually the THC within Marijuana will dull the Receptor sites of the neurons on your cerebrum making your reation time and thinking power overall greatly less. Go learn something pot head.

    Wow not only are you an ass, you're a stereotypical idiot, you know nothing of the Canadian government obviously if you make false assumptions like that. The government doesn't babysit anyone that's a futile statement, I know how to think for myself I'm doing it now aren't I? Also how are people idiots for thinking rationally? you don't say at all why or how therefore your statement is flawed. And since when do someone have to be from the US to know anything about it? I mean wow if you honestly think that then you really are an idiot. There's a course called History that you have to take in high school and eventually you have to take World History although you probably wouldn't know that would you? considering you know nothing about Canada it seems. That's the thing about you ignorant Americans, you rely on your blind stereotypes.

    It proves that it isn't fully ruled out, because its not a "for sure thing" Also I'm sure there's been more studies, those are just some I looked up. It's common knoledge thaty most people injest marijana by smoking it, there for even if vaporizer caused no negitive effect it would only be a very small percentage.

    Physical Activity promotes Cardio vascular health, has far less of a risk than ingestion of Cannabis in ANY way. The argument is nothing short of asinine and childish, of course everything has risks, but the fact of the matter is the risk of schizophrenia is far greater than you think over half of prolonged canabis users expierence some form of schizophrenia , lowered mental ability, increased agression and absent mindedness. Still sound less risky than some exciercise retard? There's healthier ways to deal with stress.

    I don't even have to argue with you on that, you misunderstood me, I said mass amounts of marijuana over time can lead to Schizophrenia. I didn't say marijuana in general would cause it from a couple of times taking it. Also the research isn't flawed Schizophrenia is caused from heavy marijuana use over time. There's proof and facts about it obviously you don't follow much science.

    Also I didn't say marijuana caused cancer, never in this whole thread did I say that, and you are accusing me of saying that marijuana and tobacco are the only causes of cancer, well I didn't say neither of those things, those deaths are unrelated to what I mentioned. I said Lung cancer is mostly caused from tobacco (cigarettes) so the fact both your parents had cancer has nothing to do with what I said, well partly unless you weren't trying to make a point. And personally I think you might be right about their cause of death either that or it ran in your family.

    So do I, but its come to the point where I have to insult how idiotic you're being, cough syrup contains only a small amount of alcohol not even enough to altar your mind, clearly you have the wrong idea of it. There's a lot of chemicals in it yes but one would have to consume ALOT of it to hinder their judgement. Just read this it talks all about cough syrup. And if you still don't believe me after reading it then whatever all I can tell you is to ask Doctor or pharmacist and they'll tell you the same as you read in the article below;

    "The urge for teens to get high seems to be increasing every decade. Teens have been using over-the-counter medicines for decades now to get high. At one time cough medicines contained amounts of codeine. Kids learned

    that if they chugged down these medicines they could get a very cheap and legal high. The FDA replaced codeine with the ingredient dextromethorphan in the 1970's as a cough suppressant. This didn't hinder the teens from discovering they would just have to consume larger amounts of cough medicine to get the same effect. You can now find dextromethorphan in tablets, liquid, and even lozenges. This makes the drug easy to attain in various forms. Teens assume that since it's an over-the-counter drug, that it isn't dangerous and they won't have any harm done to them as a result. It's also relatively cheap even when bought in large quantities, making it an ideal way to get high.

    There is a new way for teens to get their highs nowadays. Now, they can get on the Internet and order dextromethorphan in a new concentrated pill formula. This bypasses the vomiting that would normally happen from taking drinking large quantities of the liquid in cough medicines. If the teen chooses, they may even buy dextromethorphan in powder form from the Internet to snort. They can even gain knowledge on how to abuse it, and how much to take according to their weight. What they don't realize is the side effects that come from taking these drugs.

    Some side effects caused from taking large doses of Dextromethorphan are hallucinations, confusion, loss of motor control, blurred vision, impaired judgment, excessive sweating, slurred speech, nausea, vomiting, high blood pressure, disassociative sensations, irregular heartbeat, headache, lethargy, loss of consciousness, seizures, brain damage, and even death just to name a few. Another favorite among teens is Coricidin Cough and Cold, also known as the 3 C's. This medicine is usually used for patients that have high blood pressure and can't take other cough medicines because they will raise their blood pressure. Teens also consume this medicine in very high doses as well."

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/126642/is_your_teen_getting_high_from_your.html?cat=25

    You see, that is only from a large quantity no one in their right mind would do that, and even if they did they wouldn't be able to do it for long because it would damage their body. So when you say Pot is not as strong you're wrong, but you are right and wrong about one thing, it does hinder the judgement but not if you take a simple spoonful. It only causes those symptoms after large amounts are consumed.


    Making it illegal for someone over the age of 65 to drive is just wrong and ageist I mean it wouldn't hurt to adjust some of the rules a little bit, such as getting their eyes tested daily like once or twice a year, and to take the course again, to ensure everything is up-to-date. Also about the motorcycles, I don't think that would be right, its a vehcile just like a car I don't see any reason for it to be banned. It doesn't apply though, sure riders often get into accidents on them but its not like everyone is reckless on them, I'm actually one of those people who are responsible when it comes to motorcycles because I own one. Also sure there's a high majority that are irresponsible but that doesn't mean they should be banned. Besides its not the same as what we are talking about, we were talking about drugs that altar the mind that doesn't fall into that category.

    And even if they did ban them there wouldn't be much of a difference considering every year they keep coming out with faster cars people want fast. Its not about safety anymore, its sad to hear but its just the way it is, there will NEVER be complete peace on the road, but all I'm saying is it wouldn't make matters better to legalize marijuana. I mean we already have alcohol why on earth would we need to have marijuana? sure a label would help a little but even so it would be very convient for people to get. Which would be bad because a child could see it in their parents cabinet or something and randomly take it. It happens, people experiment at an early age. Think about what kind of example parents everywhere would be setting for their kids.

    --------------------
    Also my apologies about being rude, I was just irritated one thing about me that annoys me is when people act like an idiot, no offense, its just one of my pet peeves. And twat? Lol do you even know what twat means? clearly not, because not at all does that apply to me, because I'm not a pussy/coward. In my opinion that was hypocritical of you, saying you don't throw insults around when yet you just did, luckily I don't give a shit.


    Well you're wrong about it being stronger than marijuana, like all drugs it has side effects. The only way it would be stronger than marijuana is if someone consumed a large amount of it, but why would someone do this? there'd be no purpose when they could easily get pot or something stronger from a friend or someone else.
     
  9. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Rough Divide - tone down the personal attacks mate. If nothing else, they only serve to highlight the weaknesses in your arguments and your resultant frustration :) Until you can come up with some objective proof of the 'best' way to lead life, you're assuming others share your values when you tell them they're doing it wrong...


    What right does the government have to tell me what to do with my own body? Legalise heroin and the rest too as far as I'm concerned. Junkie's and potheads only hurt others when you make them criminals. No probs here if the weak of will and poorly raised write themselves off early. (That was not a suggestion that all users are such)
    Amsterdam still functions ok...
     
  10. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    Rough Divide, let me ask you something:

    Compare consuming one bottle of cough syrup with consuming one bottle of beer. Now tell me: which is more intoxicating? Which one is more likely to hinder one's judgment?

    Compare drinking an entire bottle of cough syrup to smoking one bowl. Which one is more likely to cause harm to your body? The answer, without doubt, is cough syrup; and cough syrup is legal for eighteen-year-olds to purchase! Never mind the high someone can achieve; simply consuming one bottle of cough syrup at one time is extremely unhealthy, but it remains legal.

    You also said that motorcycles shouldn't be made illegal simply because a large portion of riders are irresponsible. Well, I ask you: why is it then fair to make marijuana illegal simply because a portion of people have been involved of accidents while under the influence?

    You also have been attacking the fact that marijuana poses serious health risks; but why is it your concern what other people do to their bodies? If you're a parent, then it's your responsibility to oversee your child's actions. What others choose to do in the comfort and privacy of their homes is not your concern (or shouldn't be).
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Ill take an exact quote on where "I said" this, please... then we'll need not move on to whats wrong with your head.

    First read these or any forums guidelines then shut your little punny beek. Do not pass some high and mighty "part of my process" excuse for having no manors. Do not pretend to know who I am, I already covered this once and what I do understand is that you are a little touch hole who can not debate a topic without intentionally throwing out insults as if you think you are above all others. You ran into this topic immeadiately insulting everyone, all of whom I hold in high regard. Any questions you pompus touch hole ?
    If nothing I already said sank in there is little doubt who is acting stupid. Its been well established already that you know not what you are talking about. Exagerated one sided studies are only proof to national inquirer level mentalities... congratulations
    These are the keys word and only relevent words you have contributed relating to this topic.

    and you have a rite to feel however you want so long as its not imposed on others "by law"
    Decades of hard work tore down my body, yet at 52 it is still more fit than the average wanker body of a young "scholar", thank you very much.
    simply to quote Jack Black as is most appropriate... McGraw Hill Ryerson "can suck a cock"
    My problems ? Are you implying that people who get high do so to hide some problem ? Are you implying that people who smoke are not productive ? Running should be outlawed because its been scientifically proven to cause impact related trama to the ankles, knees and hips, thus making runners a burdon to societies medical healthcare system... so now where we at... smart ass ?
    Im sure you are the pride of Canada, so now we know all we need to know... right ? .... smart ass ! Did you actually use "blind stereotypes" in the midst of this arguement you are having ? congratulations

    Oh I know there is no arguement, but sorry you ran right into this topic implying that smoking dope would make you a schizod man and all these other issues you are now adjusting your stance on.
    Yep, fuck science but again Im 52 and know many smokers of varying degree, some always quite steady and not a single mental illness, but OK I feel ignorant for not believing your spoon feed brilliance.
    Funny... I could have swore you went into some rant regarding tobacco cancer on a topic regarding marijuana, must be that schizo setting in
    The point was peeps die everyday for one reason or another, life is short either way, it is our life and in the end ones life was for nothing. We are allowed to live it by natural laws far and above the pussy laws of whiteman


    Why should one have to read scientific bullshit when all they need to know is when you take cough medicine you feel rather odd and soon are looking for a place to fall asleep ?
    Thank you for verifing that our corporations and their tube sucking beaurocratic partners do really give a rats ass about "****** only the money the can get their hands on through them.

    Signed by one dope smoking anti pharma individual. Pharma is a huge player in the pussifacation of modern culture... why?... M O N E Y !



    Largest percentage of accidents is caused by young drivers who are NOT required to train under the extensive and intence driving conditions they should be, one of which might be considered would be under the influence of mary jane, then perhaps they would finally become one with the machine.

    Perhaps you never heard of endorphons or however the fuck its spelled and thier effect on stimuli (mind altering) ? Yet you mentioned running ? Perhaps you have never had a thrill or rush in your life ? I know I am highly succeptable to them and always have been... well a scientific survey would prolly find its due to decades of dope smoking... NO DOUBT ! Regardless this is what makes bikes, automobiles, downhill skiing, skydiving, cliff jumping, good sex "dangerous" for those that indulge the senses, so by your scientific spoon fed logic I have little doubt that labotomys are in order. This is also what feeds the power trippin beaurocracy and has centuries worth of history in sending men to war and conquest and we have the same people trippin out on whether a dope smoker should be allowed to have a fucking job ? Talk about fucked up priorities

    Learn more about what you are talking about here, the safty bullshit controlling cars today has made them expensive electrical liabilities for financially stressed used car buyers, it has also made them bloated pigs, today being half the size and near the same weight as the land barges of the pre 80's.

    You are grasping at straws here, get a clue, people have been driving high on weed on a wide spred basis for at least 40 years. I personally have yet to know anyone that said they got into an accident due to this, while many have admitted to being too drunk to drive. This was quite controvercial for years. Finally they did some test, got some real hosers totally ripped and yes indeed they were a tad slow, yet no comparision to the drunk, or the A typical female driver, with no indication what so ever if they were even adequate drivers in the first place.

    --------------------
    Too late pal... and did you just say something about someone acting like a idjut ? hypocrite much ?

    again hypocrite much, you obviously give a shit or you would have passed it by. Myself I found use of twat quite appropriate as well as funny as shit because your responses in your initial post and all subsequent ones are exactly that of a twats reaction.
     
  12. Satanstoenail

    Satanstoenail My Larpstyle determines my Derpstyle

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  13. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    As long as you continue beating your chest and claiming that everything you say is backed up by "text books" while completely failing to reference any of these, you do nothing but prove that you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure there are a few cases of weed being linked to schizophrenia, but they're an extreme minority of cases, and if you're going to use that as a justification to ban weed then you might as well use broken bones and death to justify banning baseball, which is equally absurd.

    As far as long-term cognitive deficit, I know there is a risk of it, but that risk is an individual's to take, just like any other. Plus, for all we know, those effects are reversible upon simply stopping the habit. It doesn't make weed a fucking danger to society.

    In other words, no one knows for sure. Yes, there is a risk that smoking weed can give you schizophrenia, hairy palms, an extra limb, and cause your balls to fall off. The risks are also systematically overstated by mainstream anti-drug propagandists who, like you, are basing their claims more on their fear of the unknown than on anything else. There are much more credible public health concerns in the world besides weed. If anything, we should be banning the cheap, fatty manufactured foods that are turning people into human whales and dragging down our health care system. And as far as the popularity of vaporising goes, I think it's safe to say that the illegality of weed discourages a lot of people from investing in an expensive, bulky piece of equipment that might get confiscated from them at any time. Of course, there are those who think the high is better when it is smoked, but again, if they want to take that risk then who are you to stop them?

    Way to conveniently change your argument, dipshit. I was obviously only talking about schizophrenia, not the various other milder and quite possibly reversible long-term mental effects that, by the way, smoking just every once in a while is not going to cause. And where the hell do you get increased aggression? That's practically the exact opposite of what weed causes. :lol:

    Anyway, I've more than addressed your claims at this point, and I don't have the patience to slog through another boatload of strawman arguments that you will inevitably drum up in your desperate attempt to avoid admitting your ignorance, so I'm cutting out after this. I hope you actually absorb something from this discussion, as you are clearly misinformed about the issue at hand and need to learn to think for yourself rather than parroting off the propaganda you've been fed throughout your life. Adieu.
     
  14. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    #1 Kudos to pointing out a missed key in profit. I guess I should go back through all your obnoxious, uneducated ramblings about cancer? exercise? Trying to makes sense of the scatter brained shit you are posting which everyone here has easily refuted repeatedly. What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, to find all the incorrect spellings and improper syntax in your posts (and there are plenty). See how annoying it is to get off subject?

    The irony in this section is overwhelming. Rational thinkers generally are not idiots, but I have yet to see one rational post from you on this matter. You aren't thinking for yourself on this subject, you are merely parroting the official position, and contradicting yourself everytime you say it's ok to do something else that may cause risk to the health of a person.

    But oh yeah, DER I DINT GO TO DA SCHOOL N REED TEXTBOOX N STTUF.
    :rolleyes:

    The only blind stereotype I see here is your stereotyping Marijuana based off some DARE literature.

    PS: I colored everywhere you are missing punctuation, forgot to capitalize, or wrote a misformed sentence. If this is the outcome of Canadian English textbooks, I can only guess why you are so ill-informed on so many other issues. :err:
     
  15. shred101

    shred101 Member

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    Woah, this is some agressive discussion. My two-pence is that marijuana fucks up peoples brains and although ive never smoked it me and my best mate who used to but quit doing it have been through like 10+ band members in this town alone who fucked up their mental capacity by taking it too seriously and doing too much. I guess its no worse than alchohol in a way but people take it waaaay too seriously (more so than booze) and turn it into some kind of stupid fucking religion whereby straight edge people become heretics and weed their passage to enligtenment. I've never seen anyone play better stoned than sober and if there anyone who does play better mashed than non-mashed then theyll always be second rate because theyre relying on a drug to get them in the kind of frame of mind that any decent musician does instinctively. I never used to have a problem with marijuana until I started hanging out with people who did it regularly (as oppsed to occasionally) which says it all really.
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    No doubt too much will fuck up your abilities, thus why it has always been termed "wasted". However many of my most creative and spontainous moments have occured with a 2-3 toke buzz... not that I promote the idea, it works for me due to being a tad uptight. More sadly many many musicians had openly stated that they created thier best and or most cutting edge material under the influence of something. Definantly not the way to perform at optimum abilities but does at times free the mind of outside stresses that also have their negative effects.

    I've had more problems with band member simply being lazy or narrow minded but wont play with a drunk or druggie OR uptight bastard
     
  17. SouthernTrendkill

    SouthernTrendkill Super Normie

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    Maybe if you're talking about highly technical music then you might find the druggies second rate, but if you're talking about experimental music or even pop-style music then you're going to find a lot of drug users at the top of the game. Then again, where would jazz be without drugs? Maybe the top techies are fiends, too. With all due respect, how many of these band members you had are people who you knew before they started drugs? They may have been wash-outs before they even started.

    Sure drugs fuck people up. But I don't think it's in the top tier of factors for how productive someone is or how artistically successful they can be. A lot of times their lifestyle patterns are already in place before they start. Most people don't have whatever it takes to make it as a musician.
     
  18. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    quoted for truth and to add just as a reminder people are people, it takes all kinds and nothing is a given. Everyone deals in different ways. Also often artistic people are emotionally hyper sensitive which can trigger a slew of unreasonable, irresponsible or irrational reactions.
     
  19. Blood_Tyrant

    Blood_Tyrant New Metal Member

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    @topic question

    I myself don't smoke at all. I never smoked weed, never smoked a cigarette (and I'm not 13, no, I'm 19, so I've had more than enough opportunities), hell I never even smoked a water pipe. This is due to my mother's addiction to nicotine. Still I think, that in a country, where alcohol is allowed, marijuana should be legalized too. I think it's a law that is solely based on the image of people drinking and the image of people smoking pot. Drinking is just something which is generally accepted throughout society, especially if it doesn't lead to alcoholism. If someone smokes weed occasionally though, he will most definately be considered abnormal. Excessive amounts of these drugs will unavoidably damage those consuming them in both cases.
     
  20. Personified Hatred

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    In my opinion it should. Not only to eliminate pushers (OF MARIJUANA), but also because it's a light drug and cigarettes and alcohol are legal, so for a matter of coherence it should.
     

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