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So you want a tight mix?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by jval, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. jval

    jval Member

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  2. Sacha

    Sacha Throbbing Member

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    I see your point and totally agree, tracking tightly and properly is of utmost importance. However, and this has been beat to death already, but I 'personally' think over editing and tricks like recording half speed are lame. No offense! I know from the producer angle it makes sense but as a player who has worked extremely hard on timing and technique it is disconcerting...

    edit: and that's not to say I don't punch in or edit, not at all! it does definitely take some 'tricks' to get things super tight
     
  3. Damian B

    Damian B ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    +1
     
  4. Jaymz

    Jaymz Stymphalian Productions

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    +1
     
  5. muckypup1

    muckypup1 Sinister Haven \m/

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    jesus, the amount of time you must have spent on that mix! I like recording in very small chunks but the song in the picture takes it to a new level!
     
  6. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    I think tracking like that is a really great way to sound like everyone else doing the modern ITB metal thing.
     
  7. [UEAK]Clowd

    [UEAK]Clowd Member

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who got the idea to tune for every chord. It takes a long time and I wish I had the time/budget to do it for every band I do cause it adds this like tightness that just can't be achieved otherwise.
     
  8. Force666

    Force666 Member

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    Yeah like people that can actually play.

    No offense towards you, but if you went to a pro, for example Gary Holt and told him "I'm gonna punch you in on every 3 notes and tune inbetween." He would probably laugh at you and go record somewhere else.

    I don't have any problem that you work like that. But, acting like that is "the only way" to do it is a bit ridiculous.

    Fact is, when you record that way, you're basically recording a RAP album. Because all humanism is disregarded, and to me that's what makes music special.
     
  9. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the impression that you're implying this is the most important part in getting a good sounding mix, which seems a little backwards - if the overall message of this thread were "rather than constantly buying new, more expensive mixing tools, focus on getting just a few and really learning how to use them" then that would make more sense (or "focus on getting the best sounds and tones you can during tracking, rather than trying to fix them in the mix"), but if you're talking about just wanting tight-sounding performances, I don't really think you have to convince anyone that this can't be achieved using "multiband compressors, drum triggering, software clippers, and so on" (or "slate samples and Waves plugs") - in other words, to me it seems like you're kinda blurring two separate concepts (mix and performance)
     
  10. jval

    jval Member

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    Ok, let's hear your new an improved sound for modern metal!

    Some valid points. I'm not saying that I punch in every note no matter what. Of course it depends on the player... on this particular project, they were not good players. But even with really good players there's still going to be string noise, intonation problems, etc and if you want "that sound" this is how. It's not like all the 'great players' are tracking their records in 2 days!
    Yes in a perfect world I wouldn't have to work like this. And as i progress in my career the artists are getting better. But the reason I get paid enough to live off of this is because I turn out the same quality of work regardless of how good the band is.
     
  11. jval

    jval Member

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    Yeah maybe the title should say a tight record, not tight mix.
    but your mix is always entirely dependent on the quality of the raw tracks.
     
  12. Nitsuj

    Nitsuj Member

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    Doesn't Dragonforce do something like that as well but is unable to pull it off 'live'?

    Where's the credibility man? Or is this what people are embracing in this day and age of technology
     
  13. Notuern

    Notuern Bloody vaginal belch

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    I have a rule when im tracking my self: 8 takes to get something decent, if its not good enough, wait a few hours and try again.
    The reason for this is that after 8 takes, you kind of start to focusing on getting everything so tight that you loose the soul of the music.

    Usually, i nail everything in 4 takes and dont care about the small stuff that might be better.. im kind of annoyed by all this "lets edit things to perfection" -mentality.. but then again, i dont play death metal with 8 layers of guitars and whatnot, so it doesn't affect me as much.
     
  14. jval

    jval Member

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    They're not the only ones... far from it!!

    This is what I'm talking about, what's weird with this forum. All the modern records you guys are all referencing... killswitch, as I lay dying, joey's work... this is how it's done. "right" or "wrong", who knows... it's just the way it is.
    But for some reason there's always a huge backlash whenever someone says it.
     
  15. SocialNumb

    SocialNumb Damn Christians!

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    12,000 fade files? :zombie: I'm so glad I don't have to make a living off this. I would go insane doing what is illustrated above. I can't imagine it's entertaining in the least bit. :erk:


    I gotta know, do you enjoy it?
     
  16. Jaymz

    Jaymz Stymphalian Productions

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    So do we get to hear it? :)
     
  17. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    I think the backlash is largely due to this being a very unfortunate reality.

    The ideal scenario for when a musician comes in, that who cannot play his parts, is to kick him out of the studio and tell him to get his shit together and come back in a few weeks/months (Glenn style). In most modern circumstances this usually just results in the band taking their business to someone else who has a PT rig and is happy to sit there for 16 hours a day nutting out their 30 edits per 10 seconds of music. It enables absolute hacks to penetrate the music industry. We've already been over this here though quite recently.

    I only take issue with suggesting that this sort of tracking should be taken as a standard 'matter of practice' for recording metal. People are entitled to track in their own way, and not everybody is required to conform to the standards that will ultimately lead to metal sounding like opening a guitar pro file.
     
  18. SocialNumb

    SocialNumb Damn Christians!

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    +1 on that too.
    +1^
     
  19. jval

    jval Member

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    http://www.myspace.com/wearestructures

    i had a thread in the 'rate' section a while ago, not sure if the link is still working for a higher quality mp3

    yes and no. guitar tracking makes me crazy. And modern metal in general is very tedious... i hope in 10 years I'm doing radio rock. But when you finish a record and listen back and are proud of the result, or when a young band gets picked up by a label because you made them work hard on their record, it's very rewarding.
     
  20. Fragle

    Fragle Member

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    the thing is, you only need to pull off stuff like that if you're recording shitty bands with shitty players. simple as that.
    as someone already said above, i don't see real pro bands/players like exodus/nevermore/testament etc having to punch in every other note.

    besides, you can edit a bad player to do the fastest/most complicated riffs ever, but you CANT get it to sound like they played it HARD and with the right attitude.

    i'll take a flawed performance that carries the right "spirit" over a super tight yet wimpy performance any day of the week, that's for sure.
     

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