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So you want a tight mix?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by jval, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    I think jval's mixes speak for themselves...? I haven't heard anything from anyone on this board that comes close to some of his latest stuff... I don't know, usually if a dude is making mixes that sound 100 times better than anything I've done, I'll take his word for it when he tells me what was necessary to get it to that level...
     
  2. Everybody

    Everybody Hail Santa

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    AMEN!
     
  3. right_to_rage

    right_to_rage Member

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    First off, this thread was really informative for me the at home producer. It amazing how far you need to go sometimes to get that perfect product. Second, I've never had this much insight given to me regarding the tracking stage until now. it taught me a lesson as a guitar player to always rehearse the crap out of material in a pre-production stage to really get things like tone, timing (huge huge huge huge), and feeling right so that it sounds polished when recorded. Looking at the amount of work that was involved getting that band together is insane, and it pushes me to record authentically tight parts, even if it means recording single sections. Also tuning was something I only did when my guitar was clearly out of tune, this thread reminded me to tune before I record something serious. It's all about what you want to portray in your final work, and if you need to record individually tuned chords and record one note at a time then thats fine, but at the end of the day how much did the musician who allowed all of that improve holistically? I guess just enough to record with a really good engineer.

    My opinion is that the musicians who are really going to last in this business are the ones who can actually play their instruments, regardless of popular trends pushing cut and paste recordings. But, at least we know what's possible right?
     
  4. A.D.H.

    A.D.H. New Metal Member

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    Thanks so much for posting this! My scratch tracks for my band are now sounding almost as good as my last album recorded in a studio.
     
  5. lekteri

    lekteri Member

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    I would like to hear this song.
     
  6. dani

    dani beat defective

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  7. lekteri

    lekteri Member

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  8. dani

    dani beat defective

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    the general consensus between jval and joey was this;

    it's their job to make their recording sound good. it's up to the band to be able to play it live.

    basically, chances are they're not that great live, but they've got a pretty hot recording..!

    thanks,
     
  9. ttrentt

    ttrentt Member

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    I 100% agree. This thread as really pushed me to ONLY practice to a metronome, always through a tuner! After only practicing with a metronome for about 6 months, my playing has gotten insanely tighter. I am getting ready to track the guitars for my bands EP coming up, but I want the guitars to be perfect! So for me, I just need to practice to a metronome more!

    Trent

    BTW Jval, great post, great mix. Thanks for the insight you don't see everyday.
     
  10. The Unavoidable

    The Unavoidable jättebög

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    Really late, but I really appreciate the advice in the OP. Cool stuff, and very informative.


    /end cocksuckage
     
  11. Zozobra

    Zozobra Member

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    Sorry for the threadnomancy, late to this (an understatement)

    I think fwiw the methods described in here are undesirable, but sometimes you just need to. You often need to, in fact, to various degrees.

    It also seems that their top endorsement is a brand of jeans.

    *Ahem* read into that what you will, I'm hardly in a position to judge. I just find it....telling

    Anyway, the band in question, structures, have some live vids that, while abysmally recorded to the point of being useless, are intelligable enough (sometimes) to see.....errr....something. Not going to say a further word on the matter.

    They're on their myspace


    http://www.myspace.com/wearestructures
     
  12. 006

    006 Member

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    ^^ cool story bro.
     
  13. schnykeees

    schnykeees Member

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    Am I the only one who didn't think that mix was, like.. omg.. ****ing brutal mix brah!
     
  14. UncleBob

    UncleBob Member

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    To me that mix didn't sound as amazing as made out to be, plus the guitars did sound extremely odd. In a situation where the band sucks that much I'd just rough record them then when they're gone figure out there parts and program them in using Vir2 Electri6ity or something, if your going to cheat THAT much why not make it easier on yourself and still have it fake but GOOD.

    The problem is we're all trying to survive one way or another so it's difficult to turn away shit bands who are paying well. Especially since these days everyone has a "studio".

    It's a real double edged sword if you ask me, it makes your "studio" and you as a producer/engineer sound great, it also makes the crappy band sound great but they're still a crappy band.

    On the other hand if you look at music more as entertainment than art, and you compare it to the film industry then there's no real problem, actors do things line by line and have stand-ins and stunt doubles, they have make up and cgi enhancement, the whole movie is "fake" and pieced together and edited with special effects etc etc etc. A movie isn't supposed to be "real" and natural, even lame love story dramas are so over the top and exaggerated to make them more interesting that they have no resemblance to real life at all. Plus we don't care what what Angelina Jolie looks like at home when she's not in a movie.

    Purely from a sound point of view it isn't enjoyable to listen to though, it sounds odd.

    These day's it's all purely about the writing, anyone can get pretty decent drum and guitar sounds now without even owning a microphone, and even the worst band of musicians who have been playing for two weeks (collectively) can be made to sound really good.

    Whoever writes the good shit is who will have success these days, not whoever sounds like another super tight ripoff of something else who also have the same drum and guitar sound on there album.
     
  15. Lasse Lammert

    Lasse Lammert HCAF Blitzkrieg

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    now everyone go and watch the last couple of Sneap interviews
     
  16. 006

    006 Member

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    I have a question... who gives a fuck if the band sucks live? You are putting your name and your production's reputation on the line every time you decide to work with a client. What they sound like live, how well they perform, if they even can perform, bla bla bla is NOT up to the engineer working with them, that's completely on the band. I don't worry about any bullshit like that when I work with a band, I worry about making sure it comes out as good as I can make it - period. If you make a band sound badass through however you achieve it, punching in, editing, etc. nobody is going to come and talk shit to YOU because the band can't play what they recorded at a live show, they are going to say "that band sucks live"... so what is the big fucking deal? But hey, I guess if people want to be way too concerned with something that they should have no concern about, then whatever.
     
  17. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    Yup, agreed... It's the engineers job to make the band sound awesome. If the band isn't awesome, then you do what you have to do to make it work. When you're Sneap you don't have to deal with as many unskilled musicians so stuff like this doesn't have to happen. But the dudes who want to put out professional work when dealing with less than professional bands have to use techniques that make it possible.

    What would you do if a band came in and you couldn't fit anything bigger than a 60 on their low string, they tuned to A and didn't have decent picking technique? Just put out a shitty recording? Yeah, no thanks.

    The OP has put out better mixes than anyone on this forum IMO, so I'll take his advice thanks.
     
  18. HCL

    HCL Holy Crap! Lions!

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    All this about modern production techniques killing music, encouraging sloppy players etc is the biggest pile of crap I have ever heard.

    Go compare bootleg live recordings of 80s and 90s bands and their modern counterparts. Shit, I saw a more or less unknown new Canadian band the other night who were absolutely tight as balls, playing music a hundred times more demanding physically than anything the old guard were doing*. They were as tight as the album, but I bet they weren't when they recorded it.

    Some of you should stop seeing the whole music industry through your studio lenses. Bands that might be sloppy in the studio, having just written their songs are not stopped by anyone or anything from practising afterwards. The writing system has changed with the shift in culture and technology over the last decade, that's all. Now bands will write a song, record it and then practice it rather than writing a song, practising it and then recording it.

    And really, why should any band use the old system when the new one is infinitely more convenient? Contemporary bands are generally demonstrably equally tight or tighter in a live scenario than their predecessors so what possible advantage is there in regressing?

    *Said as someone that learned guitar by buying and listening to 80s metal vinyl. It's a part of who I am but to suggest that new players don't generally have a more challenging time technically is absurd.
     
  19. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    Encouraging sloppy players is definitely a load of horseshit. But you cannot deny that production techniques HAVE changed the way we all think about metal, and the way we compose our music.
     
  20. HCL

    HCL Holy Crap! Lions!

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    Absolutely, it was pretty much the point of my post.
     

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