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Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Ermz, Sep 8, 2010.
Cool idea, I'll have to give that a try.
This is a popular one to use with delays also. In their case it lets you really crank the FX return without having the delay make the vocal unintelligible.
I think it must be a default preset in alot of live delay/reverb units. My line6 dl4 has an auto ducking delay that is hardly noticeable whilst playing until you hit that big bend or sustained note and then the delay comes in. I feel stupid for never having thought to apply this principle to my vocal sends.
It's not so big a deal. Truth be told I've never done it. The only thing I've ever side chained is a hat to the overheads because it was so goddamn loud everywhere.
I automate delays so much that the ducking becomes almost a moot point.
Once again Ermz awesome tips for us new guys. You've always got the goods! By the way has anyone tried this Free W1 limiter (L1 clone) ermz referred to?
I once used a bitcrusher and/or ringmodulator, when its used extremely gently it can make for a nice distortion sound.
This fits nice when you got some techical death or deathcore and just want to make the vocals sound like a dying machine during solo parts, you can further use some distortion and cut the take into pieces, it creates a really fucked up sound thats gonna send a chill down your spine.
Something that could be of serious use would be a waveshaper, if you lower the wave a tiny bit on metal vocals it can beefen a "weak" singer up a lot.
It can obviuously also be used as a cool effect only, but its gonna sound unnatural soon so beware of overusing it.
General rule -> Mix with the source atleast 50%.
Ive tried to do this before and for some reason it never works? Like I only hear the reverb, the delay just dosen't kick in
are you actually sending the delayed signal to a verb aux or are you just placing a verb AFTER the delay on the same aux?
I usually send the delay to a separate aux with a verb on it to have more control of levels & wet/wetter blend. The verb is usually only getting like 25% of the delayed signal ... works best for my taste cause I prefer the sound of a delay on vox more than verb. I like the verb level set to where you only notice it if you solo the vox
Ive basically got my main vocal bus, a reverb fx bus and a delay fx bus.
Ive been trying to send the delay bus to the reverb bus then having the reverb bus sent to the main vocal bus.
sorry, had to
Don't send the verb bus to the main vocal bus. Have your main vocal aux, and bus all your individual vocal tracks to that. So lets say your vocal aux was set to have its input as "Bus 1-2", all your individual tracks should have their outputs as "Bus 1-2"
then set up a new stereo aux and set its input to like "Bus 3-4". This will be your delay aux. Pick your favorite plug and slap it in there
set up yet another stereo aux and set its input to "Bus 5-6". This is your verb aux. Pick a plug, slap it in
Whatever of your individual tracks you wish to have delay added to them, insert a send and have it go to "Bus 3-4". Then insert a send on your Delay aux channel and set it to "Bus 5-6"
Now you're sending only the delayed vocals parts INTO your verb but you can still individually adjust all of the levels until you get the balance you're looking for. I keep the main vocal bus separate so that after I have a nice wet tone going on I can adjust the overall balance independent of the main vocal bus, which I usually slap a global EQ & comp on to glue the vocals together. This also allows you to put an individual send on the tracks you only want verb on and not delay (backing vocals/harmonies)
I see, so the only part that was wrong was the fact I used a vocal group bus rather than an fx vox bus?
Well, yes ... point being that you can get MUCH better results by keeping your vocal bus independent of your delays and verbs. What I usually do with the setup I described is I have all my vocal tracks/groups/aux soloed out and then mute out just the vocal bus. Then I experiment with the levels of delay & verb (just the wet signals) until I have a really pleasing balance of delay vs verb. Then I lower the faders for those 2 like 20db, un-mute the main vocal bus and bring up the 2 wet aux channels by 5db increments until I like the blend of wet vs dry. Then add in the music and adjust to taste
Might not work for everyone's setup and/or flow but its worked pretty good for me so far
I think ive got it....
Ill post 2 short clips tomorrow, one with my usual method *basic sends* and one with this technique. See which sits better
I purchased Echoboy as Ermz was almost being a fangirl about it, constantly raving about it
And I'm liking it so far, I dont think it's PERFECT, it;s got it's strengths for certain sources and I like how it saturates nicely, Telray is amazing albeit a bit darkish, but yeah, thanks Ermz for indirectly convincing me to buy it
Really nice info. Thanks for sharing!
I have a little question about vocal delay and verb automation workflow.
Do you most often automate your fx send (and have your return at unity gain), or do you automate your fx return (and keep your send at unity gain, like with OTB system)?
Or do you do both?
Thanks in advance
Well, from all of the options on my side I´ve tried so far, my Main Vocal Bus looks like:
- TC Powercore Channel Strip (some Eq, HP mainly and like 4 db GR)
- UAD Pultec, using male vocal preset
- SSL Channel, using the Sturgis presets, only compressing, but not driving it so hard (quick attack, quick release, high ratio and like 10 db GR)
- Sonnox Inflator (adding some harmonic content)
Then I also set two AUX: First one is Rverb bus with TC Master Reverb inside and second one is Dlay bus with Waves supertap in it. Then aux sends from every vox track in the project
How do you EQ/Compress standar metal vox?? Sometimes I feel a bit lost and don´t know where to cut and where to enhance...do you process in a different way growls&melodic stuff ???mmmm, like Soilwork, Mnemic and so on....
Awesome tips Ermz by the way
where can i find sturgis preset?