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Some vocal tricks for you

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Ermz, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Emdprodukt

    Emdprodukt Member of Dude Castle 69

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    rofl, why does this question come up whenever the name Sturgis is mentioned?
     
  2. Williamn

    Williamn Member

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    to be fair acappa also did mentioned the word preset, so I see nothing wrong with actual being interested in what that presets involves (in the same way the waves artist presets is interesting to study).

    Anyway thanks Ermz for the tips :D.
     
  3. wibi08

    wibi08 Member

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    It's a common thing, i think. I never use preset on itself, i always tweak it to suit better with vocal, i use preset just for save my time (now i'm really busy with my school).

    Thank you for your respect
     
  4. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    I automate the sends. This way I get individual control of what I want more of. If FX sends themselves were to be automated I'd be boosting or cutting every track that's going into that FX unit.

    Bought an Alphatrack recently to help out with this stuff. Pretty tiresome having to do it with the mouse, since I rarely ever 'draw' automation.

    The mix I posted recently showcases a lot of the 'tips' discussed in the OP (except the Distressor one): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Music/Memnoir - The One.mp3

    So does the rough mix I did for Ola a few days ago: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Forum/Fortin Natas Song 12.mp3
     
  5. acappa

    acappa Alex Cappa TMF Studios

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    For what I know sturgis SSL channel preset it´s just set the compressor to fast attack, fast release, 20:1 ratio, -20 db threshold and +12 db output, he´s using basicaly as a limiter more than a compressor, cheers!!

    I insist on my question: How do you guys tend to EQ your metal vocals??? Where you usually cut, and where you enhance....¿?
     
  6. chrisrivalry

    chrisrivalry Member

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    Eqing vocals is by far one of the damn hardest things i've come to realize to do haha It's pretty much the key element in the music which is why I've taken a very sparse approach to it recently, I'd rather get the character I'm looking for from the vocal with compression than doing drastic eq cuts or boosts, it's just better to get a good sound from the mic. I'm sure everyone here has done this, but has anyone put an analyzer on their vocal track to look at the frequency spectrum? I did it earlier and I noticed that there was hella peaks and nulls and I was wondering if this was normal or show it be focused more around the key pitch of what the vocalist is "singing"... or does screaming produce too many harmonics that fucks with this stuff. Either way I'm rambling and I think this is where the major problem of my vocal sound is coming from.
     
  7. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    I rarely ever have trouble EQing vocals. Certainly never when I have tracked them. They are usually the easiest element to seat and don't take a lot of time at all. I chase most of the tone and immediacy with compressors.

    In cases where the vocal has been tracked poorly, or the singer's technique is shot I'll spend a little more time in there getting surgical with the para EQ and multiband. Otherwise I just use the 4 bands of EQ on the Millennia and I'm set.

    Honestly, getting good guitar/bass/kick interaction is much much much harder.
     
  8. paladin shredder

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    One trick I've found for getting a better reverb sound is to put a light chorus/doubler (or cmx) 100% wet going into it . A light chorus helps simulate the reflections that would be created by sounds reflecting off the walls in a room. Most of the time, we are sending a mono track to the reverb, so by altering the source slightly before it hits the reverb, this helps make the reverb much wider and thicker.

    I find this works particularly well with drum tracks, vocal harmonies (or any layered harmony parts), and sometimes lead vocals.
     
  9. Emdprodukt

    Emdprodukt Member of Dude Castle 69

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    Didn't mean to bitch, sorry.
     
  10. chrisrivalry

    chrisrivalry Member

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    well goooood for you ; ) haha
     
  11. Mikaël-ange

    Mikaël-ange Member

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    Thanks for answering and sharing Ermin;)
    really usefull
     
  12. Uladyne

    Uladyne Greg

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    As for the EQ into compression/staged compression thing, is it customary to put an EQ and mild compression on every track before sending it to a vocal bus and having it bus compressed the rest of the way, or do you need to do most of the compression on the individual tracks? I've experimented with doing all of the compression on the bus once and the results sucked. Now I normally crush them at the indivdual track with a single compressor before sending them to the bus with a bit of mild compression to even things out a bit between parts. Sounds like I'm doing it backwards though.
     
  13. AEL89

    AEL89 Member

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    Great tip, definitely going to try that one - cheers! Cool insight from you too Ermz, cheers for posting.

    All I do EQ-wise with my vocals is filter the lows and boost at 3k. If there's something weird going on I'll get surgical with EQ.
     
  14. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    Just one thing to note... some reverb algorithms will have chorus built into them, so using your own can be a bit redundant.

    I think it depends on the reverb you're using. If you're using a high quality algo made by someone who knows their stuff, chances are they've already coded early reflections and random reflections into it, so all you'd do with more processing is interfere. What I'd suggest doing is getting to know your particular verb, and getting into the nitty gritty which might control those ERs and random reflections to give you more of that 'lush' sound you might want.
     
  15. nwright

    nwright Member

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    I would think it would depend on the vocals going into the buss. If you send entirely difference performances to the vocal buss and crush it there with compression, you have a chance of killing transients of incoming lines with the comp'd tails of outgoing lines...I don't know if that makes sense. Like say you have a lead line that holds out a scream starting on beat one...The another backing scream (or secondary lead vocal) comes in on beat 2 or later while the scream from beat 1 is still holding out. Since the comp on the buss is clamping down on the scream from beat one, that clamping is going to kill or mask the transient of the second scream that starts later. So, I would do it like you said, comp on individual tracks and then comp mildly on the buss to even it out.

    I usually double track lead lines and buss BOTH of those to one group track and crush them there rather than on their own, smply because I want to glue the 2 performances together and I don't view them as their own thing, it's the pair that makes up the "one" lead vocal performance...Everything else vocally is bussed according to whatever the song needs or effect I want to get.
     
  16. Uladyne

    Uladyne Greg

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    ^That makes perfect sense. That's exactly what was happening when I tried to bus compress everything. I like the idea of compressing doubled lines together rather than separately as I'm doing now. I think that will be a lot easier once I switch to Reaper.

    I was thinking of putting doubled takes on one track in Sonar with the track layer thing, but my particular Sonar install's glitch of the month seems to be a lack of track layer functionality. Along with it's usual knack for spontaneously thinking that the audio format of the current project is incompatible with current settings and forcing me to restart the program every 10 minutes or so. This only a couple weeks after a drive reformat and a fresh windows install. :bah:

    Sorry for venting.
     
  17. ze kink

    ze kink THE BLACK WIZARDS

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    Wait, so you limit your vocals too? Never tried that before. Just two compressors staged, first one is taming the peaks a bit and the other is going slower and evening it out a bit more. Both are taking about 2db off at the loudest stuff, so about 4db of GR. This is on clean stuff though.

    And I too have always drifted towards using eq before compression on vocals.
     
  18. FarizAdili

    FarizAdili Member

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    Ermin, is it possible to use thrash on clean vox? i've tried that, but just want to know the negative effect of it, if we put it on vox clean channel.

    and btw do you use it before compressor & EQ? or After? or between both?

    thank you
     
  19. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    Not sure about cleans TBH. If you do try it, be very careful with the Drive setting. You'd want it more for the coloration/mid-focus in that case than the grit.

    I use it anywhere really. First time was after everything else - more lately it has been first.
     

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