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Stuff you wish you knew earlier

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by HandsOfDespair, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    Don't worry, there are plenty of dudes here including myself who agree with you about quad tracking, waste of time IMO. There are some albums out there with mindblowing guitar sounds that are only one guitar per side.
     
  2. Joematthews

    Joematthews Member

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    Dude, you said quad tracking was lame, then Oz said it isn't lame in all situations. This dude is one of the most helpful and knowledgable people will meet, so respect him or no one will repect you. Quad tracking is not "lame", and he didn't attack you, so shut up.

    Joe
     
  3. AdamWathan

    AdamWathan Member

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    Glenn has definitely been very helpful and a great resource on this board but that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with everything he says... There are guys here whose mixes appeal more to me than Glenn's stuff that advocate a lot of techniques that are different from Glenn's...

    Craig was posting a list of things he's learned for his style and workflow and it was done in a casual semi-serious way, he wasn't saying "anyone who quad tracks is a fucking fool and doesn't belong on this forum." Then Glenn gave him "the facts" about how Craig's opinion is completely wrong and that quad tracking is better but Craig just isn't a good enough engineer to make it work... I think Craig's reply was pretty chill and honest.
     
  4. Soundlurker

    Soundlurker Member

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    Let's not make this into another forum "drama". Both approaches have their benefits and drawbacks, and both have a place in recording and mixing, it depends on the band and on what you're shooting for. End of story.
     
  5. Glenn Fricker

    Glenn Fricker Very Metal &Very Bad News

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    Neither is name calling. It's quite unnecessary.

    Let me re-phrase, if that helps.

    "Calling quad-tracking "lame" is incorrect. Some truly outstanding records have been quad tracked. If you're not getting satisfactory results with quad tracking rhythm guitars, might I suggest you push the performances of the musicians harder, and keep a keen eye on tuning, which must be razor-precise. It's a lot of extra effort, IMO, but can be beneficial to a mix."

    My original comment was not meant as an attack on your methods... There's absolutely nothing wrong with plain old double tracking. It's easier & takes a lot less time. Besides, the only people I ever pick on are drummers :) It's easy to mis-judge someone's intent by text alone.

    Differences of opinon are a good thing, & I welcome insightful discussions.

    As always, if our paths cross in real life, I'd love to sit down & discuss the finer points of tracking over a few drinks. I'll buy.
     
  6. Nuno Filipe

    Nuno Filipe You talkin' to me?

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    It sounds better this way.
     
  7. CraigTNelson

    CraigTNelson New Metal Member

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    Agreed, I apologize. I saw your "not for metal" comments as disregarding what I thought was a helpful post. Especially since I've used that method for metal with great results.

    Broke a personal record today: 15 mics on a drumkit: all of them necessary.

    2 kik mics, 4 toms, snare top and bottom, two overheads, 5 cymbal mics,

    Love it. Never used more L1s in my life.. haha
     
  8. CraigTNelson

    CraigTNelson New Metal Member

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    Absolutely. I usually take for granted that the people who know me know that I'm prone to overstatement and an "IMO" is understood to front everything I say.
     
  9. Glenn Fricker

    Glenn Fricker Very Metal &Very Bad News

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    Do you have any pics of that mic setup? That sounds like it's fairly complex...

    I am curious, why 5 extra cymbal mics? How would you mix them in with the overheads? (generally, I'll throw an extra mic or two up as an occasional spot-mic if something's not quite getting covered by the OH...) How many cymbals did the guy bring?
     
  10. B36arin

    B36arin Member

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    Well, there are a few things. First of all, really tight tracking is ESSENTIAL if you want metal to sound really "pro" and hifi. If it isn't tight, edit until it's tight, or the mix will suffer A LOT. Secondly, most people really, really underestimate the effect that the room gives when you track, especially for OHs. And number three, automation is your friend, instead of messing around with compressors, multibands and stuff like that for hours and not get good enough results it's normal to use automation to control the dynamics of a song.
     
  11. darthjujuu

    darthjujuu Member

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    to mix way, WAY quieter. crank those monitors, kiddies.
     
  12. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

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    Well, if it's a flying saucer attack, you need those shotguns
     
  13. slashvanyoung

    slashvanyoung Dopefish lives!

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    - Less is more! (Especially concerning plug-ins, post-processing)

    - Mix with your ears and not your eyes.

    - Don't compromise performance. A tight performance is more important than any piece of equipment.

    - Sometimes you need to crush some egos for the sake of the final product. Be friendly, but determined.

    - Have a strong vision about what you want and get your mix there, not the other way around.

    - The pros of more expensive plug-ins/software are often more related to a better workflow than actual performance, respectively sound quality.

    - Never ever record without a click unless you got Dream Theater or Mastodon in the studio. Sitting down a few hours to figure out all the tempos and time signatures will save you days of editing grief.

    - Never ever record drums to a single stereo track. No matter how good it sounds on it's own.

    - MIDI is my friend.

    - Never ever send out rough mixes, at least not until you get your mix to a point you'd basically consider to be final.

    EDIT:

    Forgot one of the most important hard learned lessons:

    - Never work for free. Even if it's just a symbolical amount. People don't appreciate things they get for free, no matter how much work you put in. They WILL take advantage of you.
     
  14. The Unavoidable

    The Unavoidable jättebög

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    #1 Less is never more.
     
  15. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    Boost early, cut late, especially with guitar tones :cool:
     
  16. KillFrenzy

    KillFrenzy Member

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    This thread is pure gold.
    I can't thing of anything other than what you guys already said. Maybe:

    - Never trust your clients judgement about the musicians technical skills. If the band members say the drummer can play well to the click, don't trust until you see for yourself. That can be a real pain in your balls if you plan on charging a fixed price. That leads to: every musician sucks until proven the opposite
     
  17. ze kink

    ze kink THE BLACK WIZARDS

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    Have the band record their band rehearsals, or better yet, go record their practice yourself. Listen to the stuff and tell them about the stuff that does not work out very well. Also have them listen to it, since many bands never do record their rehearsals. They'll probably notice a lot themselves too that they can't hear when they're focusing on their own playing at rehearsals.
     

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