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SX and Paradise Lost = Satanic ??

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by BuNdi, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    That's not entirely correct. You can be an agnostic and a theist. In fact, it's almost a given. You cannot be an atheist and an agnostic. They are mutually exclusive. Like Zach said, Atheism is the belief that there is not any god, ever. That includes discounting any possibility, ruling out agnosticism.
     
  2. HackerX

    HackerX Member

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    Yeah, it's possible. It's the difference between belief and knowledge. The possibility comes in the variations of atheism (Weak/Strong). While I'd agree that those who consider themselves Strong Atheists, can't be agnostics, there is a milder form of atheism which is just "Lack of belief in god".

    Weak - I don't believe in god
    Strong - God isn't possible

    wikipedia is my friend here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Strong_vs._weak
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism
     
  3. Lucius Octavion

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    Come on now, Tom Araya is a catholic.
     
  4. progmetaldan

    progmetaldan Member

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    Same here.

    doubly pwnd.
     
  5. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    This is a case where wikipedia is wrong then. It's happened before. There is no weak vs strong atheism. "Weak" atheism is simply belief & denial, or an agnostic reaction to a particular god. "God isn't possible" is atheism. They can't coexist in a person's beliefs if the person is rational.
     
  6. HackerX

    HackerX Member

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    Wikipedia was just the easiest information I knew how to found.

    It's a basic tenant of agnosticism:
    Knowledge != Belief.

    Agnosticism/Gnosticism(the general term, not specifically gnostics) is related to knowledge of supreme beings
    Theism/Atheism is related to the belief in supreme beings.
     
  7. CantoX

    CantoX Member

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    Most of the morals you got came from what you learned around you. What is around you are laws largely based on religious beliefs. So in a way you are religious yourself!! Cool!
     
  8. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    Morals are humanistic in nature!!! It pisses me off when people say that.

    Murdering someone through religion is completely justifiable. Parents can passively murder their sick children with religion and the issue won't be raised again. Religion cannot be the ultimate bar for which morality is set. If humans didn't have an instinctual bias towards morality then how would one know how to pick the nice parts of the holy books from the bad? By your logic I can kill an apostate and still be considered a moral person because it came from a religious text.

    Edit: I don't mean to come off as an asshole, but this is one of the few topics I get worked up over.
     
  9. CantoX

    CantoX Member

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    Nah, you don't know my logic so please don't say "by your logic". I said that I live according to my religion because it leads me down a good life, also many laws were concieved from religious laws and this is true. Not sure about that religion that you provided a link too and I won't comment on it.
     
  10. Yngvai X

    Yngvai X Dark Emperor

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    no no no no no no no and no. There are some very huge key differences between Satanism and Objectivism.

    #1 Satanists preach the sacrifice of the weak for the strong as the antithesis of Christianity preaching sacrifice of the strong for the weak. Objectivism says there should be no sacrifice, period.

    #2 Satanists view man as no better or different than a wild animal, Objectivists view man as a heroic being, who's ability to reason places us on a higher level than a mere animal.

    #3 Satanists use rituals as a way to experience reality "in different forms", Objectivism states that there is only one reality, the one that we can view objectively (hence the name of the philosophy).

    #4 Satanism says "do as thou wilt"... indulge in life's pleasures whenever you see fit. Objectivism tells you to indulge in life's pleasures but to do it rationally, not at the whim of the moment based on irrational emotions.

    #5 Satanism says its ok to act on emotions rather than reason, Objectivism views this as irrational.

    Both the satanic religion and the objectivist philosophy are based on individualism and atheism, but the similarities pretty much stop there.

    The reasons why Objectivists are atheists are pretty straightforward... if the self is the strongest, highest power, you can't have some invisible man in the sky who's supposed to have some kind of infallible dominance over you. You're also never called upon to prove a negative. Believing in God is akin to believing in unicorns... there is no proof of either, and to believe in something that cannot be proven based solely on an emotional response is highly irrational.

    I liked what a friend of mine said about agnostics... an agnostic is an atheist who doesn't have the balls to make up his mind :lol:
     
  11. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    Yeah, many laws where/are based on religion, but that's not the point. I was talking at an individual level. I was just trying to make the point that morality between believers and non believers is not shifted towards those with belief.:)
     
  12. Taliwakker

    Taliwakker .....

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    Can we discuss metal genres next...almost as much fun.
     
  13. Yngvai X

    Yngvai X Dark Emperor

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    well, religions are pretty hypocritical. I honestly believe religious morals are designed to make people weak and easy to rule over. Remember that until modern times, holy men and priests were often right next to the kings and rulers in hierarchy. Shit, look at the creation story... God punishes humanity because Adam ate an apple from the Tree OF KNOWLEDGE... and who's the one who wanted man to gain knowledge? Satan.

    edit: fuck the "until modern times" part, Republicans and bible thumpers pretty much go hand in hand today too.
     
  14. CantoX

    CantoX Member

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    Okay, well on a personal level all my morals have come from religion because that's how my parents raised me. They both taught me of religion and morals through what they knew of religion themselves. My Mother being Christian and my Father being Muslim and in the end I chose being a Muslim because I wanted to live by those morals and those teachings. I believed, and still do, by believing in my religion, and following it to the best of my ablility, helps me to be a better person and to have a better life.

    Don't sit there and tell me that my opinion is wrong, lol.
     
  15. noble savage

    noble savage Member

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    Yeah, excellent point. That's why people like the pope can issue absurd statements banning the use of condoms and birth control pills etc etc and be taken seriously. It's a modern form of social control.

    Canto, I wasn't saying your opinion was wrong. I was just pointing out that even hell bound heathens like myself have morality. No disrespect was intended.:)
     
  16. CantoX

    CantoX Member

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    S'all good man. I'll let you know when I'm offended or pissed off!!!!!!! lol

    Yeah, I don't agree with the following of the Pope like how some Catholics are doing it. Its almost as if hes a modern day prophet in some people's eyes.

    Anyone can have morals, it just depends on how they were raised.
     
  17. progmetaldan

    progmetaldan Member

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    yes, excellent idea, and then the rise and fall of Dream Theater, and who is the better guitarist out of John Petrucci, Michael Romeo and Guthrie Govan... :lol:
     
  18. CantoX

    CantoX Member

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    Hmm.. fall asleep when listening to Dream Theater.. fall asleep while listening too Dream Tension ExperiTheater.

    Portnoy: "Hey Petrucci, I've got an idea!"
    Petrucci: "If you let me out of my cage I'll.."
    Portnoy: "Shut up and listen! I know a way we can make more money!! Instead of having that girl singing in our music, we can play music without the singing stuff!"
    Petrucci: "We're close enough to that already, I mean almost 80 percent of our songs are made up of seemlessly endless soloing sections"
    Portnoy: "No, but this will be cooler, see we'll call it another name, almost as if it's another band but it's not"
    Petrucci: "Let's at least get another member for it"
    Portnoy: "Hmm.. you're right! I know, let's drop the asian in our band and get a new bass player. The reason being he's asian!"
    Petrucci: "Yeah!! That asian! Alright let's do it!"
    Portnoy: "Woo hoo!! More money!! Less asian!! More solos!! No bitch vocals!! Still making bad music but getting payed!! Woo!!!"
    Petrucci: "I'll solo to that!! -switches pickup selector to God killing mode- Yeah!!"
    Portnoy: -Plays a polyrhythm over a time signature of 144/69-

    ^ Copyright Me!!!!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Typical DT song format:

    Intro with piano only
    Cool riff that lasts for two seconds
    A minute of filler riffs
    Petrucci solo (completely tasteless)
    More sub-par intro riffs
    Drum fill that simply doesn't fit
    Verse 1
    Pre-Chorus
    Chorus
    Cool riff that you'll never hear again in the song while LaBrie holds out a long note
    Verse 2
    Pre-Chorus
    Chorus
    Beginning of instrumental section
    Two minutes of synchronized wank section between entire band
    Petrucci solo (mostly tasteless, but with one or two cool licks)
    Rudess synth solo (elephant sounds)
    Petrucci solo (complete wank)
    Rudess synth solo (porcupine being violated while burning up in atmosphere)
    Petrucci/Rudess unison (bass plays boring sixteenth notes on one string while the other five strings just sit there)
    Bass solo (with distortion that makes it sound like someone is puking up razor blades)
    Drum solo (Portnoy makes sure to hit every unnecessary piece of his kit, including all blocks and octobans)
    Rudess piano interlude (this is okay with me)
    Cool riff with a tail end of wank-fest
    Petrucci solo (again; notice he always solos before Rudess)
    Rudess (Sonic the Hedgehog being sexually molested)
    Part during live shows when LaBrie walks back on stage after his twelve-minute backstage masturbation
    Verse 3
    Pre-Chorus
    Chorus
    Outro (cool for a minute or two, but drags on for about six)
    Petrucci solo
    Last chord that rings out (it is mandatory for Petrucci to place his foot on his solo box while he bends the shit out of the 24th fret high E string)
    Massive drum fill for Portnoy to show off yet again

    ^Copyright Detective Clarence Beauregard

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also, I found the following "essays" on my computer written by EyeballKid. Enjoy.

    AN OPEN LETTER TO DREAM THEATER:

    Dear Dream Theater,

    Your new album (while all-together better than the heap of scrap that we have come to know as Octavarium) is completely predictable and utterly devoid of emotion or proper care of songs.

    I understand that there are some "rocking" crunch sections that allow you, Mr. Petrucci, to place your leg up on those completely necessary black boxes surrounding your pedals and bob your head like a seal, but I notice you playing nothing new on guitar. Except for Joe Satriani's War during the solo bridge of Constant Motion, which, although technically new when played by YOUR fingers, is exceedingly old for those of us who enjoy listening to a song the first time it is written (and by the original writer, no less).

    I agree that alcoholism is a terrible addiction, Mr. Portnoy, and I fully support you in your strive to kick the habit and tell the world what it feels like to be under the control of a destructive substance. I only ask, however, that you acknowledge the fact that continuing your story of redemption on Dream Theater albums has also become a destructive substance. If I wanted to hear five minutes of talking (in which the words are too low in the mix to comprehend anyway) I would step in to an elevator.

    Believe me, Mr. LaBrie; I know that you are in a quote/unquote "metal" band, and that the pressures of trying to sound aggressive are strong. However, the sound that comes out of your throat is already painful enough without you distorting it and trying to sound like the hybrid child of Dave Mustaine and James Hetfield. Please remember that your voice, although never to be considered pleasant, was at least tuneful once.

    Mr. Myung and Mr. Rudess, all I can ask is that you please comprehend the "less is more" policy, and implement it as often as possible. We all know that you can play 763 notes in four seconds, but can you play 763 notes in 763 seconds? The world wants to know.

    As for the lack of emotion, cookie-cutter, non-inspired sound of (to be honest) the entire album, I ask that you all collectively re-listen to your back catalog. For easy reference points, please see Lines in the Sand, Pull Me Under, and Take the Time. If possible, try and listen without repeating.

    Pick up your instruments, take three years off, and actually write an album, rather than churning out another piece of your own (and often multiple other band’s) recycled music.

    Sincerely,
    - Your Non-Contented, Not-Really-Fan, EyeballKid

    DREAM THEATER’S SYSTEMATIC CHAOS DOCUMENTARY:

    Without having even seen the Systematic Chaos DVD, I'm fairly positive that it contains the following:

    01. An introduction by Mike Portnoy
    02. James LaBrie entering the studio in sunglasses
    03. Some shots of Portnoy setting up his drums
    04. Petrucci playing a solo that could melt the sun
    05. Some shots of Portnoy playing drums
    06. A shot of the sun melting
    07. Portnoy drumming
    08. Petrucci and Portnoy sitting in a room full of Muse, U2, Metallica, Megadeth, and Tool albums, taking notes
    09. Portnoy rearranging his drum kit
    10. Myung about to speak
    11. Portnoy hitting a cymbal
    12. LaBrie coughing in the vocal booth
    13. Portnoy playing a ridiculous drum solo, on only his wood blocks
    14. A two-second shot of Rudess
    15. Portnoy doing a drum roll
    16. Petrucci scanning a page of Joe Satriani's The Extremist tab book through a copy machine
    17. Portnoy playing to a click track and then stopping to tell the engineer that the click track is "off"
    18. Petrucci and Portnoy gleaming maniacally as they polish their cauldron of cash

    If you feel this is worth your extra five dollars, by all means, go forth and purchase the special edition of Systematic Chaos!

    - EyeballKid

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thread officially derailed!!!
     
  19. progmetaldan

    progmetaldan Member

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    Damn you, that stuff should never have been allowed outside of the musician discussion forum... :heh:
     
  20. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    Duh dude, you basically fleshed out my post. I said objectivism is a more social self focused belief. As for why objectivists are atheists, I didn't define that cause it should be obvious!
     

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