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That "Clayman" sound....

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Glenn Fricker, Dec 26, 2005.

  1. Disconnekt

    Disconnekt Member

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    I'd center the B57 and offset the 57 if I were you, since the offset mic will end up being louder in the mix... you basically just mix in enough of the on-axis mic to smooth out the off-axis mic and add some more presence and bite. The essence of the tone comes from the off-axis mic. In my mix above, with the preamps as equal as I could get them, the on-axis mic is mixed 4.7 dB below the off-axis mic.
     
  2. MilkAndCheese

    MilkAndCheese Bastard

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    Yeah, that makes sense, since the B57 seems to be louder. Thanks. :)
     
  3. Genius Gone Insane

    Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com

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    Holy shit that sounds great!!!
     
  4. Black neon bob

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    Sounds stunning!!
     
  5. Glenn Fricker

    Glenn Fricker Very Metal &Very Bad News

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    Revised observation: I'm an idiot.:yuk: I did my initial test at about 3 am last night, so I didn't look too carefully into what cables I had plugged into my patchbay. Turns out the off axis was the brittle one. I'll post some A/B comparisons with the on/off axis mics louder & soloed so you can get the idea.
    Unfortunatley, a major DSL switch in my city screwed the pooch so I'm only getting about 0.7k bandwidth right now.

    Further observation: With the off axis mic louder, and the straight one brought in under it, you can really achieve a fat, snarling tone. I'm going on hour 7 of testing, and I've got about 17 mixes with variations on channel, mics & you name it. A little bit of post EQ & a multiband are definitely needed, and the off axis mic sounds like shit on it's own. Time to pack it in, my ears are fried.

    -0z-
     
  6. Nitronium Blood

    Nitronium Blood UM BOARDS' JESTER

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    Bloke, that sounds awesome. Really really impressive. Makes me think even I could do it if I had 2 pro mics and a 6505 combo.

    I liked the tune as well. It just felt so 1999, and I mean that as a compliment.

    Is the tune yours or from some Goteborg band?

    Now my questions:

    - What Mic Preamps are those mics going into?

    - What Audio card/hardware?

    - What Guitar make and model? What Pickup make and model?

    - What were your settings for the combo?

    - Why is the 5150 combo on a wooden table?

    - Have you done this at home, or is this a studio?

    - If it is home... what have you done to 'set up' the room for acoustic management?

    - How would you rate the sound of the Røde NT1 compared to a second SM57?
     
  7. Disconnekt

    Disconnekt Member

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    Thanks everyone for the comments!

    Hey, SM57s are dirt cheap! And a used 5150 combo, while not DIRT cheap, is about as cheap a high-gain tube amp as you can get. Mine was about $515 shipped from eBay. Another $75 for a used 8-ohm Vintage 30, and you're good to go.

    Thanks! It's mine, just the start of an idea at the moment, but I'm working on it.

    Digidesign Mbox on both counts. The preamps in the Mbox are Focusrite class A's, but that doesn't really matter as the Mbox's shitty converters pretty much tear up the nice sound of the pre. That doesn't matter a whole lot once you've got it in a mix, though.

    Oh yeah, and while I'm thinking of it, 4 takes of rhythm guitars recorded by 2 mics each, for a total of 8 rhythm tracks. Just 2 takes of ambience/lead on 1 mic each.

    Fender Fat Strat, made in Mexico. EMG 81 at the bridge running on 18 volts for more headroom.

    High gain input. Rhythm tone: Lead channel, pre gain 4.5 or so, bass 7, mid 3, treble 6 (or maybe 5, I'll get back to you on that... it's loaded in the car right now), post gain <1 believe it or not, resonance 7, presence 0.

    Lead tone: don't remember exactly, but I believe it's something like this... Rhythm channel, pre gain 7, bright and crunch on, bass 6, mid 3, treble 6, post gain 1, resonance 6, presence 7.

    2 reasons: to get the speaker closer to ear level when I'm noodling around, and to make it easier for my boom stand (holding the NT1-A) to work around the speaker. That table is probably doing horrible things acoustically and I should put the amp on the floor, but I don't feel like buying another low-profile stand right now... and I'm lazy. :p

    100% bedroom... and the only real instrument is guitar. Bass is Spectrasonics Trilogy, and drums are DFH2 with an extra snare sample mixed in for good measure. Recorded and mixed entirely in Pro Tools LE on an iMac G5.

    Nothing... I'll be moving soon anyway.

    I don't know, really... I'd like to try another 57 at some point. By itself, the NT1-A is a bit smoother between 4k and 8k, but being a large diaphragm condenser, the extended frequency response (and slight low end and high end hype characteristics of the NT1-A) can get pretty buzzy and boomy on a guitar speaker. Lowpass and highpass filters take care of that pretty well, though.

    However, mixed together, I think the way 2 SM57s would reinforce each other's peaks and everything might be interesting, and I'd like to see/hear how it works. The NT1-A does sound fine for what I'm doing, though, and it's a fantastic mic for under $200 new.
     
  8. Nitronium Blood

    Nitronium Blood UM BOARDS' JESTER

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    Disconnekt, on behalf of everyone who values the information you have provided in so much detail, we thank you and salute you.

    Really, this sounds pretty damn good for a room that was not acoustically treated, and for a home recording that WAS NOT Pod Xt!
     
  9. Nitronium Blood

    Nitronium Blood UM BOARDS' JESTER

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    Thank you also to OzNimbus for starting this thread, The Storyteller for telling us about this Nordstrom technique, and to Fredrik himself. :)
     
  10. Disconnekt

    Disconnekt Member

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    Thank you man, and no problem doing it! And DEFINITELY kudos to TheStoryteller for hooking us up with all the info!
     
  11. kelch

    kelch Member

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    hey Disconnekt that's sounds killer :)

    how about posting a clip of just the rhythm gtr?

    thanks,
    kelch-
     
  12. TheStoryteller

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    Just glad to share. And hey, we haven't even scratched the surface regarding the Clayman-details yet. :) I've decided to leave Fredrik alone until next week (he has loads of work this week), but then I will call him to get more specific details about the Clayman recording.
     
  13. ghostchant

    ghostchant New Metal Member

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    hey Disconnekt that shit sounds really good... just wondering when you say you recorded 4 takes of rythm guitars where do you generally place the panning for each? Like for each take would both mics be hard left or right or do you put the off axis hard and the on axis a touch to the opposite side?? Just curious for anyone actually i'm going to try this out today and obviously use my ears but i'd like to know what "you" guys do for panning when you have two guitars which sometimes do different things and then come together at points to play the same thing...

    also, would you recommend a 421 on axis with a 57 or off??? I have an nt-1a too i'll try them all out just wondering what you think though

    thanks
     
  14. ghostchant

    ghostchant New Metal Member

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    and by two guitars i mean two guitarists that play separate parts and come together in choruses/bridges etc. to play the same riffs

    just trying to figure out the best way to pan this type of situation if i get each guy to do two takes with two mics set up each time
     
  15. Black neon bob

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    Another golden thread!

    We need a database for all the good threads on the board, this one, like many others is allready full of usefull information.. and i think there is more to come...
     
  16. kev

    kev Im guybrush threepwood

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    That seriously sounded pro, and rocked man! :OMG:
     
  17. kelch

    kelch Member

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    Here's a clip I just tracked with my 5150 using the the Fredman technique. The gtrs were single tracked per side. I believe this is the fattest tone yet with this amp.

    5150 Clip

    Here's the chain:

    EMG81 -> SD-1 -> 5150 -> HotPlate-8db -> Mesa 2x12 V30 -> i5 and MD421

    5150 Red Channel
    Mesa 2x12 V30 and GS1275... only mic'd the V30

    i5 is straight on
    MD421 angled

    I used the whitenoise method to place the mics

    Kelch-

    ps: I like gain... o_O
     
  18. Seizure.

    Seizure. Member

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    COOL!!! seems like this techniqua realy gives you the way it sounds in the room some more.

    what is the whitenoise micplacing method?
     
  19. kelch

    kelch Member

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    run Whitenoise through the amp and monitor mic placement with phones to place the mic. You can develop a pretty good sonic map of the speaker and can hear where the different areas start/end.
     
  20. Glenn Fricker

    Glenn Fricker Very Metal &Very Bad News

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    Dude, that was fucking wicked.

    -0z-
     

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