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Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Glenn Fricker, Dec 26, 2005.
BTW, are those stock speakers in your 5150 combo?
He mentions on page 3 that it is a "5150 combo loaded with V30s".
kelch, your link doesn't work for me.
I was a dumbass and saved over that one, but I have another one with slightly different EQ on the guitars and multiband compression on the stereo mix that I could post if you're still interested.
There are 2 parts, and 2 takes for each part (a total of 4 takes). Both takes for each part are panned 100% in their respective directions (first part 100% left, second part 100% right). Since each take is 2 tracks (one track for each mic), that results in 4 tracks panned 100% to each side. For every take, I keep the mics panned in the same place, since I want to get the blend as a single sound, so to speak. I could pan two takes at 100% and the other 2 at 80% for some separation if I wanted, but I'd still keep the two mics for each take panned in the same place. I hope that's not too confusing, but let me know if it is!
As for your 421 question, all I did with mine was try to reproduce the Nordström technique to the best of my ability, and to do that, I made sure that the mic I mixed in the loudest was the 57. In my case, that was the off-axis mic, since I feel that the off-axis mic is the one with the most character, even though it's a bit rough sounding. The on-axis mic is mixed in mostly to smooth it out and add some presence, the way I see it. So in your position, I'd probably put the 421 on axis and the 57 off axis.
Thanks! Listening in my car and on some other systems, I now realize that mix wasn't quite right, but hey, this stuff takes a lot of practice, and I've definitely got a long way to go.
Thanks! As of now, it's just one V30 in the combo with the other stock Sheffield disconnected (I've got the single 8-ohm V30 plugged into the extension jack with the internal jack disconnected), but I have another V30 on the way right now. I posted a clip this summer with stock speakers, and it was horrible compared to this. For an extra $75, it is absolutely worth it to replace even just one of the speakers with a used V30.
Right now, my good speakers are a couple of hundred miles away, but through my decent headphones, that sounds pretty damn good!
I've been wanting to try both the i5 and the MD421, but that requires money I can't spend right now ... your results have me thinking that I should go ahead and spend that money when I have it, though!
Hey Diskonnect, a couple of more questions:
Were you using a Tubescreamer?
What kind of post treatment are you doing? I.E. what are your EQ curves looking like. I've been wrestling with this for a couple of days now, and everything I'm doing is very mid-range-ey compared to your results.
BTW, I'm running a MKI 5150 thru a Marshall V30 4X12.
No Tubescreamer. EQ is mostly taming of the lower midrange, along with a lowpass and highpass filters at about 100 Hz and 11 kHz. The lower mid cuts are pretty drastic, though... the 5150 combo seems to be pretty strong on the lower mids. 300 Hz to 1 kHz is louder than everything else no matter how I set up my mics and what speaker I use. I make a very wide and deep cut at 500 Hz to balance it out with smaller and narrower cuts around 350 and 750 Hz to get rid of a couple of nasty resonances. The natural bump right around 1 kHz is essential to the character of the tone, but it's a bit too strong in that cab, so I bring it down just a bit for balance. Everything from 1k to 11k is untouched, though... the mic placement smooths it out completely and gets rid of the nasty shrill and buzzy resonances that can pop up sometimes with a single 57 and a V30. From the results I've been hearing from other people, most 4x12 cabs are tamer and more balanced in the midrange.
This is without doubt the best guitar recording i've heard from the board so far in my short time here. The snare sound isnt my favourite, sort that to sound more like a real kit than a progd one and you could sell this shit for big bucks :hotjump:
Hey Disconnekt, I'm not really clued up on recording techniques but I learnt quite a bit just then from you and TheStoryTeller, extremely interesting for me as I have been playing guitar for about 7 years and absolutely love In Flames. One thing I do wish to express is that the recording you posted sounds absolutely fucking amazing in respect to both recording techniques involved and the music itself. That first riff sounded like the direction In Flames should have gone in after Clayman, IMO. It was the perfect mix of Clayman and Colony in terms of it's style but has something really new and fresh as well. You should really consider writing a whole album of that sort of material because it's exceptionally good and I would purchase it for sure. =)
Finally had a breakthrough: and I'm one happy engineer. Taking the tubescreamer out of my signal chain really let the highs through. With it on, it seemed to be really reinfocing the midrange. From what I've learned over the last three days, when you're single miking, a tubescreamer is a nessescity. But it's a different ballgame with two mics.
The other caveat is to watch the lows & low midrange. Without the tubescreamer, they're a great deal more present. EQ & multiband can help out huge here. After that, just set your faders to taste, with the off axis being the louder one, and you're off.
Thanks to The Storyteller & Diskonnect, and everyone else who contributed on this thread... I'm finally getting the guitar sound I've been after for ages.
Hopefully I'll post a clip later tonight.
Not entirely sure if you were talking to me, but if you were, then thanks! (And if you were talking to me, I agree about the snare... I think I'd be able to do better with DFH Superior, and MUCH better with an actual drummer!)
Thank you, man, that does mean a lot to me. However, I can't say anything bad about Come Clarity... I think that album absolutely ROCKS. As far as my own stuff goes, though, I'm working on it! If I were a better guitarist, I'd develop my ideas much more, but I'm not a very good guitarist, so simplicity (and a tempo that falls far short of ridiculously fast) is the rule where my songwriting is concerned. I'm looking for lessons, though, if anyone's got any to offer!
I can't wait to hear it, man. Your drum recordings (and recording guides) are phenomenal, so I know you've got something awesome in the works here too! (...and don't thank me, I was just taking TheStoryteller's advice myself. It's all about the mic placement!)
Anyone else wondering if Andy has had a look at this thread and gone "hmmm... I wonder"?
Andy already tried this technique of course, and actually a few weeks ago, did a comparison mix between a 2 mic'd cab and a single mic'd, and the clear winner was the single mic'd, better definition.
But did he try the very same Nordstrom 2 mic micong technique.
Hmm, I'm a bit puzzled about this thread. Surely, the sounds recorded do sound great, but this micing technique is nothing new or speciel, and certainly not a "Nordstrom" thing (I DO love his work though) - just a bit surprised that no one has seen this before. BUT, it IS a great technique and i hope that you all find the sound you're looking for.
I guess then we're all wasting our time :hotjump:
one always has the option of using only one mic...
Bob Rock used it on Metallicas black album; that's where Nordström picked it up.
The black album does sound good... to me atleast.
Just a few of my observations after dicking around with this for a few minutes at practice the other day...
I tried it with a black e609 on axis and a silver e609 off axis. The black is more flat in the presence range and the silver is more pronounced, so I was trying to tame the on axis presence and bring out a little extra in the off axis. I blended them equally and it sounded fine, which was surprising after what everyone else was finding.
I'll flip the black and silver tomorrow and see what happens.
Anyway, I agree with Oz and everyone that mentioned the midrange buildup. Ditching the TS is a good idea. Hmmm...
I had to high pass a little more than usual as well as high shelf +3db at 3k, which I don't think I've ever had to do before. There was plenty of high end coming off the amp in the room.
That leads me to think that my phasing could have been better BUT -- the best thing about this technique for me was WHAT WAS LOST due to the phase relationship of the two mics.
When I flipped the phase on one of the channels, all I heard was the whistling, fizzy high end crap that drives me nuts when mixing. So obviously, that's what's gone when you flip the phase back. Perfect.
This is really promising already. I spent about 5 minutes on placement and dialing on the front of the amp and got one of the best raw guitar sounds I've ever been able to record. The guys in my band were pretty stoked, too.
Thanks again, everyone!