This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

The Argument / Topic Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'LORD' started by Rick, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Rick

    Rick Senior User

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    6,042
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wagga, Australia............
    Don't think we have one of these yet, so i'd like to make one. I (or one of you guys) will throw a topic in the air, say a choice between 2 options that relate to civics, history, religion, science, morality... Whatever, but that are relevant in some way. Basically it will be an argument thread... But not a heated one. People for argue for and WHY, and people against REFUTE. The responses will be relevant, clear and detailed. No pointless shit like "Lawl, X is clearly better than Y *end post*.

    This weeks topic is: "Federalism or Unitary State in AUSTRALIA" - Are the States becoming redundant, or are they still relevant, but being strangled by the Commonwealth / let down by poor representation.

    In case you hadn't guessed, I'm reading about this at the moment, but have always had the conversation in my head because of clear poor performance in the last few years. So let's begin.
     
  2. bsercombe

    bsercombe Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Perth, WA
    States are redundant. Modern communications and systems - if implemented correctly - would eliminate the need for a third of our public servants at all levels. Unfortunately you're never going to be able to do anything but duscuss the notion.

    States are the obvious ones to go because they are the poorest performers. What's worse is the more they have to manage the poorer they perform when compared to their peers (NSW I'm looking at you). Singapore has a far better public service than I could ever hope that Australia will.
     
  3. flip`

    flip` Your mother was a hamster

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    People that use religion to justify anything, regardless of the religion and what they are trying to justify... just shut the fuck up.
     
  4. Winmar

    Winmar Pillock of society

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    11,020
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I was thinking about the states a couple of days ago. Would some states be given favouritism if state govts were abolished? Or does that happen anyway under the current arrangement?
     
  5. Bucko

    Bucko Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,692
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Canberra
    ahhh FUK OFF
     
  6. Rick

    Rick Senior User

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    6,042
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wagga, Australia............
    It's not an attack on public servants bucko, lol. Just the topic of the week because it's relevant, and people have an opinion about it.

    Not entirely on topic, haha. But true too.

    I suppose that would come down to how much the fed would be making / investing in projects in those states?
     
  7. Winmar

    Winmar Pillock of society

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    11,020
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Yeah that's what I mean. Some states might get more than others (per capita or whatever), and I wonder how it would be allocated. I wonder also how it is in Britain, where they have a different setup. In Indonesia the less populous islands get a bit narky about Java getting so much funding and investment.
     
  8. Si

    Si The Trickster's Bitch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cairns, effin'Q
    Have you seen the marvellous roads in Canberra? Meanwhile my motorbike disappears down potholes on New South Wales' national highways. That's what we'd get for everything if the states were abolished. I don't think the hospitals or schools would be any better than they are now, especially after they got sold off. to private investors.

    I'm actually kind of for abolishing the states. It'd be cheaper if nothing else. I just have no illusions of the Commonwealth handling things any better.
     
  9. Celestial-Todd

    Celestial-Todd The Incredible Bulk

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,530
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Western Sydney
    Isn't the whole point of the local council, state government, national government meant to be to allow ALL people to "have a voice"?

    ie, local council deals with whatever affects their area.... state government keeps all the local councils in line.... national keeps all the state governments in line?

    My only concern for abolishing the three tier system is if we just have a national representation, what happens to the "little issues" that affect only a smaller part of the population (say filling in potholes on a town street). To have those sorts of decisions centralised, instead of removing red tape, we're just adding more in a different location
     
  10. Goreripper

    Goreripper Metal as fuck

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    18,844
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    Singapore is virtually a one-party fascist dictatorship, so I'm not surprised by this.

    I think Federalism is the only system that can work here, but I think the main problem is that the Constitution is too restrictive on Federal intervention in State matters. Australia is so large that even if the States were abolished, you would still need a bunch of departments set up to look after the areas the States currently manage anyway.
     
  11. Rick

    Rick Senior User

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    6,042
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wagga, Australia............
    I was waiting for you turn up. :) Some have suggested that the constitution be amended to more clearly outline WHO has WHAT powers and WHO is responsible for WHAT, being that accountability and responsibility are a huge problem. As it stands it is pretty jumbled, with clear examples being the federal intervention on public education etc.
     
  12. Celestial-Todd

    Celestial-Todd The Incredible Bulk

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,530
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Western Sydney
    That's the point I was making... even if we totally abolished the states, we'd still need local representation being such a large country geographically
     
  13. Goreripper

    Goreripper Metal as fuck

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    18,844
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Blue Mountains, Australia
    :) I've been busy getting shit together for the magazine...

    When the Constitution was being written, the biggest problem was appeasing the various Colonies, especially the smaller ones who wanted protection fearing that the Federal system would disadvantage them. So there was a lot of concessions made to make sure the States didn't really lose their influence over the things they already controlled. Parkes and the other Fathers of Federation looked at both the US system and the British one and tried to come up with a mixture of both. The biggest issue with the Constitution is that it was written in the 19th Century. Regardless of how forward thinking these things are, there's no way to tell how they'll reflect the values and needs of a community 100 years later.
     
  14. Rick

    Rick Senior User

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    6,042
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wagga, Australia............
    It seems to me that this issue hasn't really been that informative / argumentative. Anyone have any suggestions for topics?
     
  15. Celestial-Todd

    Celestial-Todd The Incredible Bulk

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,530
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Western Sydney
    I think it's been pretty informative... but not argumentative. Maybe we're all just too kind :p
     
  16. Winmar

    Winmar Pillock of society

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    11,020
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    People just haven't got heated, like you instructed, Rick. :) Where's Josh? He'd get someone fired up.
     
  17. Rick

    Rick Senior User

    Joined:
    May 10, 2003
    Messages:
    6,042
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Wagga, Australia............
    New topic: Are Manly the most overrated team of the last decade? Haha, just kidding Josh if you're out there.

    I don't think it helps that a lot of us are Atheist and open minded, otherwise i'd put a 'Religion' debate out there.
     
  18. Celestial-Todd

    Celestial-Todd The Incredible Bulk

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,530
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Western Sydney
    How about this one

    Is the internet destroying our ability to communicate?
     
  19. Si

    Si The Trickster's Bitch

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cairns, effin'Q
    Guh?
     
  20. Celestial-Todd

    Celestial-Todd The Incredible Bulk

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,530
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Western Sydney
    Ok maybe not us... but as a society as a whole.

    I ask because I was at my nieces 13th birthday party a couple of months back and despite there being 10 or 12 kids there, I've never heard a quieter bunch. Most where either tapping away on their phones or netbooks. Eventually my sister got jack of it and forced them into party games (you know, stuff kids are supposed to do).

    And let's not even get started on net-speak
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Our music community has been around for almost 15 years and we pride ourselves on offering great metal music discussion, as well as music production and other closely related topics. We work hard every day to make sure our community is one of the best. Enjoy!
  • Like us on Facebook

  • Donate ♥

    We have worked hard for 15 years (and running) to make sure our Metal community is running fast, uses the best software, and isn't overloaded with advertising. If you love the forum as much as we love bringing it to you, please show your support with a generous donation. We really appreciate it!