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The Clean Vocal

Discussion in 'Musicians Discussion' started by Soultorn, Nov 20, 2002.

?

Should Soultorn keep the clean vocals?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    94.7%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    5.3%
  1. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Cool i'll check those out.
     
  2. Nefilim

    Nefilim Rotten undead buccaneer

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    I don't think you're off key on the studio recordings. Maybe a little at some point, but nothing unbearable. On the live recording you were a bit more off key, at some points quite heavily (no offense!). Live can be a real bummer though, with bad stage monitors and all the shit going on, it can be hard to sound good with clean vox. Whatever you do, NEVER EVER lose faith in your own ability to sing clean vox. The day you start believing that you sound crappy, you will sound crappy. Until then, just tell all non-believers to fuck off. If they can't take your clean vox, they probably can't deal with the rough stuff either. ;)
     
  3. Soultorn

    Soultorn The Pain and The Darkness

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    Well.. I don't know if you all know this or not.. but that live recording was done with a video camera :lol: and the person recording it was in the middle of the pit.. basically...so... I'm sure that adds to whatever it is you're hearing with the live recording.
    Hope that's cleared up, haha. Listen to it again, and you'll see what I mean. The only reason that track is there is for something for people to download if they like our stuff already (hence why it's at the end).

    Really though... honestly... people don't talk shit about my live vocals... it's the studio recordings I get shit about....

    And yeah... that's been my motto.. I haven't really cared about people's opinions.. but in the end... they are the ones who will buy the CD's, and tell their friends, so I have to take a hint.
    The world is full of ignorant people.... and yeah... I can tell them to fuck off.. but if that's 2 out of every 3 people... that really doesn't help me much. Hence this thread.
     
  4. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Man I had to listen to Fallen quite a lot to draw my opinion. Your harsh vocals sound damn good but to me they sound more punkish than your clean ones (I don't know why but i've heard punk singers sing that way, so don't look at me with this face -->:eek: ) :lol: Your clean voice it's pretty unique I gotta say (haven't heard many metal vocalists these days that have your voice) my opinion is to keep the clean vocals and don't take what other people say too seriously. It's your voice and anyway most of the critiques I bet aren't singers and give you shit just for the sake of looking like smartasses.
     
  5. Soultorn

    Soultorn The Pain and The Darkness

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    I should take you all on tour with me to beat down the shit talkers :lol:
     
  6. WarHead

    WarHead Handful of Nothing

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    I really like your growls they'er bad ass. To be honest Im not digging you singing to much. But dont give up. Hmm. What were your insperations for singing. Like what type of bands did you get your style from. Either way, you own with growls. \m/ (><) \m/
     
  7. Soultorn

    Soultorn The Pain and The Darkness

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  8. Froz

    Froz Your Coldness

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    I've only the away song in mind

    As I'm a lazy ass I'vn't read all the posts
    my question is if not already answered
    Did you record you vocals while playing guitar?
    if so try to separate things

    for clean vocals my advice would be
    take your time

    I mean on the song I feel that you're
    trying to go as fast as the music
    and at least for me clean vocals are supposed
    to express melancoly which means slower tempo

    btw
    keep coming the good work
    don't give up
     
  9. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    They are a band dumbass :lol: :p




    btw i'm kidding about the dumbass thing, don't get mad :p
     
  10. Soultorn

    Soultorn The Pain and The Darkness

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    I did the vocals seperatly in the studio. I can't live though, obviously.
    And yes.. the clean vocals a relativly quick tempo... but that can't be changed... it IS a verse... and it IS a fast song.
    Imagine it reversed... with the chorus sung and the verse harsh. Do you think it would be better that way?
     
  11. Froz

    Froz Your Coldness

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    I don't know I can't tell if I haven't heard

    but fear factory did that on few songs and it was cool

    gotta try both way I think
     
  12. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter Not faggoty deathcore

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    Yeah, dude, definitely keep the clean vox. Your growls are really, really impressive dude...a lot of sustain. Your cleans aren't bad at all; what do people expect, Bruce fucking Dickinson? Are you sure that the negative comments you received weren't from nu-metal fags that didn't like harsh vocals? I know that the most common thing that I hear from some dork who likes Korn is, "Wow, I really like the music, but I just can't get into the vocals. I don't like those growls, you can't understand what they are saying." I usually want to punch people in the face for being so simple-minded.

    Anyway, are you singing from your throat or your diaphragm? Your clean voice has kind of a drone to it, but it's FAR from bad. Shit man, look at Dave Mustaine. Ever heard him sing live? HE SUCKS. He's my favorite guitarist, but he sucks as a frontman. People who don't like his vocals on his albums REALLY won't like him live. Live, he sounds like he's straining to take a shit because his voice is really high pitched. I think you should go for the thrash vox, though. That would be a perfect medium; James Hetfield meets Layne Stayley.

    I'm far from a professional singer, but I have a pretty decent voice; it's good enough to be a frontman, although I'd rather play guitar. I just keep a good, clean, steady tone when I go clean...I do this by mainly singing from my diaphragm. You probably already know this, but push all the air out of your lungs with your voice, and it will come out cleaner and actually stronger, rather than singing from the throat. The throat tends to limit your range to low, droning tones because you aren't exercising your voice, only SOUNDS of your voice. Classic examples of this are frontmen like Scott Stapp of that garbage band Creed. He doesn't have a good voice. He has a very strong, low voice, which he uses to his advantage. By enunciating certain syllables and vocal patterns, it comes out really strong, but limited. Basically he's talking and humming at the same time.

    On the other hand, you have people that do have really strong voices, like James Hetfield, but through improper singing techniques, they lose their voice after about 10 years of non-stop touring and bad vocal techniques. No warm-ups and singing all from your vocal chords blew his voice out. He had to take singing lessons, and now his voice is strong, but he's lost the roughness around the edges that made it so fucking awesome. When Dave Mustaine was asked to warm up his voice when recording an album, he hocked a loogie, spit it into the trashcan, and said, "Ok, I'm warmed up." I think that speaks for itself when you hear the vocals on Megadeth's newest live album.

    Also, don't forget it's personal preference. I would classify your band as having a sort of Gothenburg-sound meets traditional metal, meets thrash metal. That song "Away" has a kind of "Hallowed Be Thy Name" from Iron Maiden tempo and feel to it. I will agree, however, that the clean vox sound ALOT like something from the hardcore punk band 88 Fingers Louie or Dillinger Four. Mainly because punk sings in a very flat, droning voice that's pretty fast tempo. Actually, the song "Fallen" has a sort of punk feel to it.

    If I were you, just keep doing what you love. If it fits with the music, which it does, nothing's wrong. I can remember when harsh vocals were taboo, period. Back in the day, the harshest vox you got was from Metallica, Testament, and Slayer. Maybe Venom too, but you get the picture. It's all perception.
     
  13. Soultorn

    Soultorn The Pain and The Darkness

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    haha, no no... no Nu metal morons would get me to question whether to keep the clean vocals or not.
    Take a look.
    Quote: Lords of Metal E-zine
    "The singer tries to sing with normal vocals but sounds like an old man of 85 years old who has hardly a voice left. "
    Quote: Fleshrites E-zine
    ". The only thing I don´t really like yet are clean vocals, because I think are not in the right tone with guitars and aggressive voice (wich, by the way, is perfect for this style!). I think Soultorn must improve a bit this point, because nowadays clean vocals are so important in the sound of a band such as this."
    Quote: Throat Culture magazine
    " indeed, the clean vocals
    on this record could use some work, as the singers
    clean voice is not strong enough to come into the
    forefront without being backed up by the full band"

    It's those types of comments that make me wonder. Yes, I sing with my diaphragm. I have a very deep voice, and well... if I didn't use my diaphragm my screams wouldn't be half as good and I wouldn't HAVE a voice, period.
    If you think the thrash vocals are the way to go, check out "Dodging Bullets" on the mp3 page and let me know what you think.
    But as far as the clean vocals go, people just don't like them.
    I get one good comment for every 5 bad ones, though that doesn't seem the case here...
     
  14. Lychgate

    Lychgate Member

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    I can see what you mean about the Garm style "inflection" thing, and I really like it. You clean vocals are great, and the transition to growls is excellent (as are the grolws themselves)! However, there does seem, to me, as though the clean vocals are slightly restrained, or as if you are singing with your tongue sewn to the bottom of your mouth? I don't know, they just seemed held back somehow. However, that does not make them bad. Well done.

    Oh, and great band :D.
     
  15. MUSICATLAS

    MUSICATLAS New Metal Member

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    I personally think that your clean vocals don't fit the music. You do have a very good death scream that fits perfectly. Have you ever thought about changing the way you sing, like go at it differently? Have you ever gone to a vocal coach, and if so did you address this concern?
     
  16. The Yngster

    The Yngster Member

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    First of all, just like to start out by saying your band sounds great and keep up the good work! :D
    Your harsh vocals are really amazing, they really do fit the music. As for the clean vocals, I'd say they need a little work, but you really do need them. They seemed a little forced, if know what I mean. But if you work on them a little bit, it would add so much to the band. Its amazing how much depth it adds to the music, being able to do both harsh and clean vocals.
     

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