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The Fall of the American Empire

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by speed, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. Mormagil

    Mormagil bring back the corvee

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    Most of them probably are, along with some of the Scotsmen. ;)
     
  2. infoterror

    infoterror Member

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    I don't think you know enough about Texas, if this is what you posted.
     
  3. metu

    metu Member

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    Kosovo is a great example. I'm a reformed American. I had convinced myself that I did not care. I didn't have a clue about what was goint on over there, but I asumed we were doing the right thing. Honestly, now I think that we did do the right thing to stop the violence which Europe ignored, but my ignorance of the complexities of the situation at the time sames me.

    I honestly can't describe how much everyone I know cares about such things now. Our ignorance will never again be nearly as profound as it has been.

    My advice when arguing global politics with Americans: Don't even mention a party; let alone a president. Be humble (lead by example). Tell us something we don't know; rather than telling us what's wrong with our government, tell us what's wrong with Pakistan's government.

    Calling us stupid hicks just gets our irish up. When we get our irish up, we refuse to listen to reason. If you insult my character, I have to beat you down whether there are girls watching or not. Don't insult my character and don't insult my community. These people work their asses off for next to nothin', not livin', but still dreamin' the American dream.

    ---------------------

    The "American way" is coming over on a boat when you're 18 because your family can't affort to feed you: sweeping trash for a decade: getting married to one of four or five girls who can undestand you: having 4-5 kids: getting a deed to free land with a promise that all your dreams have come true: realising you can't afford to get to your land, let alone affort the tools and seed to toil it: taking out a loan to get to your land, to get tools, to get seeds, and to get the rest of your family out there: realising that the land you were given is horrible for farming: working as a de facto indentured survant: having your land taxed out from under you: never giving up because you still believe that your children can live the "American dream."

    The American dream is that we can make a difference. The American dream is that we are not just peasants; we control of our own destiny.
     
  4. infoterror

    infoterror Member

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    Even more, realize the problems in America have to do with philosophy of rule and not the character of each individual America. America = domination by Crowd. Until Europe also rejects liberal democracy, I think they should cease their criticism of America.
     
  5. JColtrane

    JColtrane Member

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    Erm, just one thing. America is not an empire. If it was, Canada wouldn't exist. Neither would Great Britan, Mexico, or a lot of other places.
     
  6. speed

    speed Member

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    I most respecfuly disagree. We are as much a empire as any nation today could be. Occupation as we have recently learned is near impossible. Instead we try hard to create a economic world wide empire under the pretense of world trade. But in reality, free trade is but a means for our large companies to take over. we use our clout on the world stage to bully OPEC, NATO, and the UN. And lets face it, Mexico, Canada, and Central America are in the shadow of the US. So much so, that we have pretty much run Central America for the last 100 years.

    There probably wont be another colonial empire as since the 60's Vietnam showed how defiant native populations are to foreign occupiers, and Iraq is the latest incarnaiton.
     
  7. T_man357

    T_man357 Locked & Loaded

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    That's a nice dream and all...But since liberals are anti-gun pro tree hugging pacifists who don't believe anything or anybody should be harmed...I would welcome any and ALL attacks from the liberal flower patrol..
     
  8. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    I find American politics totally unworkable. At times I wonder if secession during the civil war was a better idea. The clear divide in views seem to follow the north/south divide pretty closely.

    I make no apologies for saying I find America to be one of the biggest problems the world faces in the next 100 years.

    I'm not insulting the majority of its people, nor the beautiful land itself...purely it's attitude to foreign policy, short-sightedness with regards to said foreign policy, the environment, domestic policy and the hubris it displays at any opportunity. I find the patriotism many American's display to be vulgar.

    Plus...And I am asking, not saying here, does it not seem like half the population are dangerous, gun-totin', fundamentalists with an agenda that could threaten us all?
     
  9. T_man357

    T_man357 Locked & Loaded

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    I like your posts!! Make no mistake about the fact that I don't agree with this at all!!(Though your Civil War point is excellent!! And I do somewhat agree with it) But I like how you present your arguments...

    And no on your question...Taking a page from Europe it's getting harder and harder for regular
    American citizens with no criminal records or evil intent to get licensed to own firearms...
    Criminals will always find a means to aquire a gun...But the people who want to own legally and
    exercise their 2nd Amendment right are getting turned away more & more everyday.
     
  10. WhiteBoyFunk

    WhiteBoyFunk Married to Metal

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    I am reading a lot of great points from a lot of people, but I can't help but disagree. Seeing that I am probably too young to really understand the rise and decline of a nation (which the whole process takes centuries I'm sure) it makes it hard to really justify my thoughts.

    It seems to me to be coincidental that these recent events have been in domino effect. I have read about a lot of hardships in America's short life. What about the depression? The cold war? The Civil War? Through all of these things we have triumphed.

    The fact that these rough times will make or break or country sounds more like it, but I honestly think it is just fluff or even hype.

    Edit: Rofl, I didn't read all of them, forgive me for reiterating!
     
  11. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    I'm not sure triumph is the correct word. America has indeed had a short life and perhaps much of it is just growing pains.

    Roll on the days when you get a president who likes to have sex in the oval office again rather than wage war!

    Having said that clinton dropped a fair amount of bombs himself.

    I'd be happy with a democrat in office, hardly an ideal choice but better than a republican, i think. I wouldnt support enforcement of liberal policies upon the Southern states but I think the fundamental nature of republican policies are quite dangerous, not only as insults to personal autonomy but also in relation to foreign policy.
     
  12. speed

    speed Member

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    I just read a excellent book by Niall Ferguson called Colossus. The book claims that yes America is an empire, but it doesnt take such a title seriously. It also questions how much longer America will stay an empire using economics.
     
  13. WhiteBoyFunk

    WhiteBoyFunk Married to Metal

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    What lengths of times does it suggest for the retention of the nation? I'm sure quite a while, but due to countries that can produce mass amounts for next to nothing, namely China in this case, we will eventually be outgunned.
     
  14. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Yes...America remains a "civilised" country and while we may see exploitation of workers there, they still must adhere to certain rules and regulations they could never totally ignore when it comes to living standards. In china they totally negate these regulations and can produce just as much for much less and yes...they will eventually out-gun us all. Quite scary.
     
  15. WhiteBoyFunk

    WhiteBoyFunk Married to Metal

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    It's true and the saddest thing about it is that stuff made in China always sucks! :lol: It's always falling apart or is made poorly.
     
  16. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    Too true!

    China scares me, the direction they are heading in makes me incredibly worried. Huge numbers, armed to the teeth, obviously agressive and hugely opressive...we live in dangerous times.
     
  17. Pessimism

    Pessimism Endemic Vagabond

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    There are a lot of conspiricy theories revolving around the US and China in the future: and of course they all revolve around the Iraqi war right now. It basically plots out like this:
    Iraq (make bases, gain some oil) => Iran (with Iraq in position we have bases now surrounding the place - we get oil supplies) => China (always filthy rich due to their low waged workers and high exports, with Iran in control we will control oil prices, which will finally give us an edge over China, and able to stay ahead of them).

    This is all the talk I've been hearing online and etc. Whether it could happen I have no idea - unfortunately I don't follow politics and get confused as hell when all the terminology gets brought up (neo-con, liberal, liberal (different kind), liberal again, shaka con, blah blah blah).

    China put ina huge bid on an oil company that was selling a while ago....completely dwarfed all other bids from what I was told. But...being China, the US put them ona 90 day "inspection" to make sure of some bullshit, and the company sold before China ever had a chance to purchase.

    Either or if any of this stuff is remotely true (or not), then eventually there would be a huge war with China - most battles in history took place because of resources, if not all of them.
     
  18. derek

    derek Grey Eminence

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    The serenity movie is based on the premise that America and China become the worlds greatest superpowers at the expense of every other country. They use every natural resource and war until there is nothing left and then the remaining folks on the planet just abandon it.

    Eeerily possible?
     
  19. speed

    speed Member

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    There is a problem with the whole China craziness and it involves economics. China's central bank has become the sole biggest buyer of American government bonds and currency. Thats right, if China wanted to, it could put the US in a serious, serious, recession with ridiculous double digit interest rates and inflation. CHina actually has more power over long term interest rates than the FED (its true!). But for China to sell off American bonds and currency, it would be devaluing its own holdings and currency, and cripple its biggest buyer and investor--the US. Thus, the shock to the Chinese economy might be as great as the shock to the US's.

    The biggest threat to the US is our debt and annual deficit. A conservative Teasury Dept estimate finds we will have a 50 trillion dollar national debt in 30 years. And thats with record low spending as part of GDP on defense. If the Chinese and other East Asian banks stop buying our bonds and currency, we will be set into a inflationary spiral as the US will print more money. Already the Euro has gained in popularity with central banks. But eventually 50 trillion in debt will have serious repercussions on the US economy.
     
  20. Pessimism

    Pessimism Endemic Vagabond

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    Hasn't some of the middle east switched from our currency to the Euro as of late Speed?

    .......It's a sign of trust :lol:
     

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