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Discussion in 'Katatonia' started by Brevidade, Jan 9, 2002.

  1. Brevidade

    Brevidade New Metal Member

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    Hello.
    One simple subject: What you think about Vegetarianism? Some of you are vegetarian?

    To some day...


    "Everything tired me, even what don't tired me. My happiness are so painful than my grief."
    - F. Pessoa
     
  2. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    I'm basically a vegan (though not militant about it) so I'm definitely pro-vegetarian.

    We can eat and be healthy without killing animals to do it so I think we should.

    There are so many reasons I think vegetarianism is a good thing, but it would take forever to explain them all.

    One important thing though - it takes WAY MORE space and grain supply, and contributes WAY MORE to environmental pollution (ie. more methane gas) to produce enough meat to feed the same amount of people as you could with a relatively small area used to grow soy or grain for human food. I wish I had the figures handy, but it shows how incredibly wasteful meat-farming can be.

    That's enough ranting for now, I guess, but I've been a vegetarian for over ten years now,a nd it's a topic that means a lot to me.
     
  3. Brevidade

    Brevidade New Metal Member

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    But don't you think that the future path of the world is to a alimention based in vegetarianism? The health reason is, nowadays, very strong to many people- but there is others reasons to became vegetarian, the ethic reason (the cruelty against animals, etc), for example...

    To some day...
     
  4. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    When I'm feeling optimistic I think we're evolving or at least progressing towards an entirely vegetarian existence.

    But there's still a great deal of resistance (meat-lovers; industries like animal agriculture, animal feed production, meat packing plants, leather producers, etc...), and then I think that if it does happen it will be hundreds of years after I'm gone.
     
  5. Wanderer

    Wanderer Decayed Smile

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    You need to eat "white meat" (it is turkish it means fihs' meat or chicken's meat.i don't know it's english meaning.)
    You need to kill animals.You need to eat them.I can not understand vegetarians.When they born they begin to eat meat,milk,etc. but after 20 years they decided to not to eat it.It is exiting.And now vegetarianism is begining to be a trend.
     
  6. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    You don't need to eat any meat. At all. If you did, all us vegetarians would be dying off from malnutrition. We're not.

    Exiting? Perhaps. Leaving behind a parasitic life that depends on the death of other animals to continue. Makes sense to me... (Obviously, or I wouldn't be doing it.)
     
  7. LoboUivante

    LoboUivante my tummy hurts

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    I know a guy wh is a vegearian, he honestly HATES grease, fries and MEAT... i dont understand... bu its k with since he does no tells me what to eat... i like MEAT... who am i kidding... I LOVE meat.
     
  8. Wanderer

    Wanderer Decayed Smile

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    You need to eat fish.I am sure about it.But it makes you sick not dead.And it is absurd to say that you did not want to kill animals;Is there between diffrence killing animals or plants?
     
  9. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    No, actually there is NO evidence that PROVES you need to eat fish to be healthy.

    It is far more absurd to suggest that there is NO difference between killing a plant and an animal.
     
  10. _Transparent_

    _Transparent_ Junior Member

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    to live without women is to live without beer.
     
  11. _Transparent_

    _Transparent_ Junior Member

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    ooops when i said women i meant meat, well its all the same, anyway i suppose you can tell what my minds on.....................................................................................................................................................food, i mean women i mean im going to sleep.
     
  12. my dying groom

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    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Children and the drunk (and obviously the tired) speak the truth... :rolleyes:
     
  13. Wanderer

    Wanderer Decayed Smile

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    No there are proves! and there is no diffrence between killing an animal and a plant but this discussing became absurd (it would be better to talk with a doctor)
    And I don't hate you don't think like that
     
  14. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    People have actually been eating vegetarian for hundreds of years by conscious choice. I personally have lived EXTREMELY HEALTHY for more than 15 years without meat. For every piece of so-called evidence to prove that being vegetarian is unhealthy, there are many more studies that actually prove the opposite.

    I can't tell anyone else how to feel, what to think, or how to eat. If you can't see a difference between plants and animals I can't change your mind, I only find it infinitely sad.

    But - do you see a difference between animals and humans?
    European explorers and colonists didn't; at least they saw little or no difference between black Africans and animals, between aboriginal Americans (North and South) or Australians and animals. That's how they excused tearing approximately 15 million blacks away from there homes in Africa and forcing the ones who survived into slavery. That's how they justified stealing the land of aboriginals in the Americas, massacring the people it belonged to and herding the small number who were left into farms that they called reservations.

    I could easily go on. But people can make there own choices. I have chosen to live without eating anything that can look me in the eye or move around of its own volition, and I'm very happy with my choice.
     
  15. yourdeadgroom

    yourdeadgroom Black Stone Wielder

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    Why is that sad? Don't assume your views are right. It's been shown that plants feel pain. Although, like you I do view the two as different (and I'm not arguing, just sayin, 'sall :) )

    I do. Humans are the only animal I could kill without feeling bad about it.

    Personally, I need meat. Humans are omnivores after all. I'm totally opposed to those who kill things for sport (and this includes fishing), but if it's to eat, then fair enough- we are just one more animal in the food chain, it's a natural thing. No probs with those who don't eat meat though, I can see how I might one day slightly lean that way, if given enough motivation, but for now, meat is it (to steal a phrase ;) )

    I have one vege friend who says she has alot less energy since she ditched meat, but she admits she often doesn't take iron tablets and such like, so it may be her fault for being a dumb-arse :lol:
     
  16. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    Of course I'm going to assume my views are right. This isn't just a casual thing for me, it's something I truly believe in. It doesn't make sense to believe in something that I don't think is right.

    But assuming I'm right has absolutely nothing to do with feeling sad. I feel incredibly sad that humans can kill and torture millions of animals without a second thought, or even wondering if what they're doing is wrong. Are you telling me I shouldn't feel sad just because my feelings don't equate with the common views of society? That I shouldn't feel sad about death and pain?

    I don't go up to meat eaters in restaurants and tell them they're wrong, and I don't even tell my friends they should stop eating meat. But the subject was raised here and I'm responding with how I feel. As I said earlier, I can't tell people what to think or feel, but if I believe their opinions result in pain and death, then I have every right to say it makes me sad.

    As for the energy thing - if people are conscious of what they eat, including lots of fruits and vegetables, and mixing grains and legumes, they should end up with more energy not less. (That's what I've read on the subject, and it's backed up by my own experience.)

    In relation to plants: Plants display little (I'm not saying none here, so don't bother bombarding me with exceptions) awareness of the outside world, other than to send their roots in the direction of gravity, and their shoots away from it, and responding to temperature and light. They move around a little in one place, but they can move from one place to another on their own, and they can't look me in the eye.

    Animals display a vast awareness of the world and other creatures in it. They move around on their own, they have clear, non-chemical ways of communicating, and they can look me in the eye.

    To me that's a big difference. Test's that try to prove a plant's concept of pain and its awareness of the outer world are dealing with very abstract concepts that don't really translate to a human understanding of the world. I must eat something, so I leave the abstract ideas to the researchers, and I chose to eat what can't look me in the eye.
     
  17. Wanderer

    Wanderer Decayed Smile

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    I did not said that it was unhealthy! And there is no diffrence between platns and animals (humans are animals too) but we are more powerful and smarter than them!But you need to eat fish.I am sure about it.
    Do not say me that you are healthy people in Somali can live without water and food.

    "In relation to plants: Plants display little (I'm not saying none here, so don't bother bombarding me with exceptions) awareness of the outside world, other than to send their roots in the direction of gravity, and their shoots away from it, and responding to temperature and light. They move around a little in one place, but they can move from one place to another on their own, and they can't look me in the eye."

    Then we can eat paralytics too!!!

    I am not opposse of it.I dont like killing animals to but we have to we need to eat and it does not matters an animal or a plant
    It is just a TREND now.It is not logical(but it is for me)
    You can eat what you want but you can think about it.

    and i hate about it "i can not eat animals cause they are looking my eyes" You can eat plants easily are we evil or you?
     
  18. lumen

    lumen CKMS supporter

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    It is not a trend, as I mentioned before vegetarianism has existed for hundreds of years, if not longer.

    One more time, it is not necessary to eat fish to be healthy, or any other animal products.

    I repeat, plants and animals are not the same. You have a bizarre concept of reality if you see no distinction.

    Once again, I choose not to eat what I know has a strong awareness of its own existence. Because I must eat something, I eat what doesn't display much awareness of its existence or the world around it. If I could live without eating anything alive, I would, but that is not an option open to me at this stage in human evolution.

    I am finished on this subject. Say what else you like. I will not respond. You believe what you like and I believe what I like, and neither of us seems inclined to change our minds. You can despise what you see as my "trendiness" and I'll despise what I see as your cannibalism, and we'll both live happily ever after.
     
  19. _Transparent_

    _Transparent_ Junior Member

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    yeah i like that quote/phrase or whatever its called. anyway don't you think theres a direct (positive) correlation between people being vegetarian, and people wanting to lose weight? i think theres some truth in that. from my little experience that is. :err:
     
  20. my dying groom

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    Ah yeah, I see! And I seem to recall something strange... I stalked through the forest and suddenly there was this bear, and he was not only sunbathing in a folding chair, but also performing a perfect photosynthesis right before me...

    ...and as I vainly tried to get hold of some fish (I was damn hungry, I tell you!) from the nearby brook with my bare hands, the bear stood up (he was damn furious, I tell you!), drove me out of his grounds, laughed hysterically and caught himself a fish for stomachic delight.
    Errr...okay, I guess I'm back to "normal" now. Just eat everything that satiates and doesn't interfere with "interests" of others :loco:
     

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