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The Military/War Thread

Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by Dak, Jul 3, 2016.

  1. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    A couple of people expressed interest in discussing military matters, and I added /War since there are aspects of War that aren't limited purely to the military.

    My 2 cents to open the thread:

    With each year I am removed from my own participation in the military/my experience in war, my education and further life experience has changed and shifted how I perceive what I have come to conclude is an inescapable aspect of the human condition, and if it is inescapable then one must deal with this aspect on those terms, not from a utopic kumbaya position.

    All of that said, it would be dishonest if I didn't admit some bias in this, for I've come to accept that my orientation is to echo the sentiment expressed by Robert E Lee:

    From someone with this orientation, the politician is possibly the most odious of people, and one can find any number of quotes, from any number of famous military leaders and also from those in less prestigious positions in their respective warfighting organizations, expressing intense disgust, anger, disdain, etc regarding all things orbiting and occurring within the political sphere; a loathing of The Politician. This orientation derives primarily from three real and/or perceived differences between The Warfighter and the Politician. The politician is perceived as lazy, greedy, and corrupt, and functions to deprive the Warfighter of the necessary things required perform the job of defeating the enemy Warfighter or at a minimum to merely do nothing. The Warfighter acts, the Politician talks. The Warfighter earns his keep, the Politician does nothing of use. The Warfighter protects, the Politician is a traitor.

    There is also a very paradoxical relationship with the Citizenry. On the one hand, the Warfighter is drawn from the citizenry, and in a vague sense often sees the military as the bulwark defending The Nation (or The Tribe), which is made up of the citizenry - including the Warfighters (but interestingly enough not always the politicians). OTOH, when presented with specifics about the citizenry, there is often a similar response of disgust as when presented with the politician, and for similar reasons. The citizenry is seen, at a minimum, as largely comprised of lazy slobs.

    By their usual nature of being essentially government bureaucracies, militaries are plagued with many of the problems you might find in something much more benign, like the DMV. Waste, bloat, oceans of paperwork, piles of protocols, etc. I would assert that these are much more likely to occur in a "peacetime force", as "make-work", than a military engaged in war.

    When a military is operating as a well-oiled machine, when it applies and executes overarching strategy and tactics on the ground against a foe that lacks either the planning, training, or execution to match, it is a thing to behold. Posts in this thread should be mostly limited to topics that involve planning/procurement, training, and examples of execution - outstanding, good or even poor. The nationality of the military is open (although it is unlikely anyone is really going to spend much time on the military of some modern east Asian country or Canada lol, as are historical eras.

    Edit: @rms @H.P. Lovecraft
     
    #1 Dak, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
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  2. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    http://www.popsci.com/ai-pilot-beats-air-combat-expert-in-dogfight

     
  3. Dak

    Dak mentat

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  4. Dak

    Dak mentat

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  5. rms

    rms Active Member

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    working my way through that, but 125 pages a night is fucking brutal. no way you can have a good discussion reading that much haha
     
  6. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    That's pretty equivalent to graduate school reading loads. Have to learn to skim and pick up the key points.
     
  7. rms

    rms Active Member

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    might as well assign short articles then :p
     
  8. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    I assume it's more about varied exposure than expecting in depth reading on everything. My reading load this semester was maybe right at what I could read in detail if I literally did nothing but read outside of class, which isn't feasible in my position being married with kids.

    If I had come from a solid middle class background I might have been a military officer, but I had to take a different path. Almost all of my hobbies though trend from the strategic to the tactical though.
     
  9. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    Some points take longer to make - so, as Dak said, you have to learn how to read for major claims.
     
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  10. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    This is an example of a bumbling businessman displaying more prescient evaluation of a geopolitical situation than most pundits. He obviously has some people feeding him positions but he is *saying* smart things for whatever reasons, and this will parlay into national military positions. I am hoping this is in agreement with Mattis et al.
     
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  11. zabu of nΩd

    zabu of nΩd Free Insultation

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    I've been meaning to read up more on Syria, but it's not too high on my list. I heard that Russia helped the Syrian govt retake Aleppo, and that John Kerry accused Russia of indiscriminate massacre. I know US inaction has allowed things to get worse there, so I'm willing to believe that however brutal Russia was, the blow against ISIS could make it a net positive.
     
  12. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    I'm sure Russia is going in there and being indiscriminate, but I don't see that as any more brutal than handing millions of dollars in weaponry to every angry person not in the Syrian army proper. Trump was absolutely accurate in saying that all these guys we've been knocking out were bad guys, but doing so hurt the US' general geopolitical position and made life worse for the people in those countries.
     
  13. tagradh

    tagradh Active Member

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    He's basically saying what all the 'loonie lefty' types (i.e. sane people) here in the UK said before these various interventions, arguments which saw successive governments and most of the media branding them traitors and other such nonsense.

    luls
     
  14. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    I'm sure there are national differences in leftist opinions, but the left in the US was fairly happy about going after all of these guys. Now, the qualifier to that is that there was plenty of concern about the lack of WMD evidence and 9/11 connection before going into Iraq. But they were all happy to see Saddam taken down, and then especially since 08 the anti war left all but disappeared.
     
  15. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    Mattis is the best appointment he's made, one of the finest servicemen in our nation's history and in the history of the Corps.
     
  16. H.P. Lovecraft

    H.P. Lovecraft Active Member

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    Been rereading Carl von Clausewitz's On War, magnificent compendium of philosophical and technical commentary on the nature of war. A tad dry, but as intriguing a read as I remember nonetheless.
     
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  17. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    Yeah I need to get around to reading many books, and that's on the list.
     
  18. rms

    rms Active Member

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    so how bad is Russia going to bomb anything related to ISIS now? lol bad move dudes
     
  19. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    I'm not sure I follow.....
     
  20. rms

    rms Active Member

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    russian ambassador was assassinated in Turkey by, what they are calling, a terrorist
     

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