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The Official Movie Thread

Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by Manic Ferocity, May 4, 2007.

  1. challenge_everything

    challenge_everything Active Member

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    Really? I mean, I love a bit of gratuitous revenge violence as much as the next guy, but I thought it was a cheap payoff to fanboys, was basically a rehash of the Inglorious Basterds idea and had little connection to the rest of the movie.
     
  2. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    Little connection? I dunno about you sometimes. Is this like when you tried to claim First Reformed isn't a political film or that Starship Troopers had nothing to say? That ending was about as logical a conclusion to the point of the film as I could think of in hindsight. Also it wasn't revenge violence unless you're defining that so loosely as to be basically meaningless.

    To me the point of the film's handling of the Manson Family (which is wrapped up in how the film ends) was to expose them for the weak spineless pieces of shit they were, after decades of pop culture had morphed them into some rebellious murder cult that should give you nightmares, what Tarantino exposes is that they were just fucked up cowards that attacked women and males of the softer variety. Had they come into contact with with anybody even a little tough that night things would probably had been very different. Steve McQueen famously smashed Charles Manson's face in at a party once, and Tarantino alludes to the idea that maybe Tate would still be alive if he'd been with her that night (if you recall the party scene where McQueen watches Tate dancing and says he never had a chance with her, because her "type" are short men who look like teenagers).

    The overall vibe I got from the film is that it's a kind of love-letter to the good old days of masculinity and man's man actors of Hollywood, and how do these old types handle the transition into a more artistic and sensitive era. Then you have a hippie cult who get it in their head that preying on the sensitive elements is a good idea, but in Tarantino's alternative universe they fuck with the wrong ones (the old timers) and get absolutely butchered for their troubles. Sure it was an ending for the fanboys, but when the hell has Tarantino ever done anything for anybody other than for the fanboys? He's the biggest fanboy himself.
     
  3. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    So, fuck the Oscars. Us was monumentally better than Joker. So much more entertaining, a much better story, and better acted. There, I said it.
     
  4. rms

    rms Active Member

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    That white guilt making you think that it was an Oscar worthy film? Jesus Christ
     
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  5. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    It was just a better movie--such a better movie, it's not even funny.

    The narrative was immeasurably more appealing. Joker was, by and large, quite boring--and it relied heavily on Phoenix's acting, which, although fine, did nothing to raise the film above average. It was an unimpressive and boring film, whereas Us was an entertaining and funny film. It's not even a question of white guilt. But thanks for your dimestore diagnosis.

    Also, I didn't say that either film was Oscar-worthy. Think through the logic.
     
  6. challenge_everything

    challenge_everything Active Member

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    I didn't say that I didn't get what Tarantino was trying to achieve. I just don't think it gelled at all. There were the kernels of a good film behind Di Caprio's reinvention as a 'serious' actor, but muddled in with some indulgent, idealised (and ultimately uninteresting) iconography of 60s Hollywood, random bits of 'tough guy cool' (the Bruce Lee scene), #metoo apologism, and meanwhile the Manson hippies are given token and cartoonish bad guy treatment. Perhaps I haven't use the phrase 'fanboy' correctly because you're right, Tarantino only makes movies for himself and his fans, but what I mean is that whereas his films used to be unique beasts, now this alternative reality, wish fulfilment type approach is becoming formulaic and self-parodying, from Inglorious Basterds to Django to this. It's now a case of keeping fans happy by giving them what they already like and are comfortable with and that's what I mean by fanboyism.
     
  7. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    No offense but these criticisms feel kind of hollow to me. Keeping fans happy? He was always doing that. Formulaic? His films are basically collages of his influences, his formula has been that for years at this point. Hell, this film almost follows the same exact trajectory as From Dusk till Dawn.

    I'm the last person to go out of his way to defend Tarantino, and by no means am I saying this film was amazing and without issues. Like I said, I thought it was pretty boring at times, and one major complaint I have is that it does a damn near nonexistent job of letting the viewer know that the film is affected by perspective of the main characters, hence the utterly retarded depiction of Bruce Lee, it's not meant to be accurate, it's meant to reflect the ego of Brad Pitt's character and how he remembers things in his past happening.

    That said, Tarantino has always relied on stylism and this is no exception. I really don't view his filmography as that unique in the first place, even though I agree he used to make much better films. I agree that the depiction of the Manson Family members were pretty generic, but as fodder for the finale's massacre it's something I can live with.

    Also you kind of implied you didn't get what his point was when you said the film's ending seemed to have nothing to do with the rest of the film, but fair enough...
     
  8. Vegard Pompey

    Vegard Pompey ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU

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    Joker grossed more than a third of what the new Avengers film did on less than a fifth of its budget, with no action scenes, no superhero and an R-rating. That's pretty huge and I bet there are studio execs thinking hard on how to replicate that kind of success.
     
  9. TechnicalBarbarity

    TechnicalBarbarity -TheNightsBane-

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    i saw the Joker againa and my opinion on the film went up from above average to pretty damn solid.
    The way how he was just so miserable in the beginning to the killer ending where he seems to be so relaxed and comfortable with what he's become, or more correctly "blossomed" into was just fantastic.



    EDIT: this youtube comment nailed it ... "You know what's ironic is how at the beginning of the movie he is forcing himself to smile, only to laugh freely at the end after finally letting go."
     
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  10. challenge_everything

    challenge_everything Active Member

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    This seems harsh. I think you have to work very, very hard to argue From Dusk til Dawn, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Inglorious Basterds were anything other than unique films, both in terms of film generally and vis-a-vis each other. However the revision of tragic history into triumphant heroism has underpinned 3 of his last 4 films now.
     
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  11. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    Fair last point, and one of the gimmicks I wish he'd let up on at this point.
     
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  12. rms

    rms Active Member

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    .

    Saying fuck Oscars this movie got nominated and then saying another movie was better kinda makes it obvious that you're suggesting Us was more worthy and worthy l. Whatever though

    Us was so bad, so boring, so poorly executed, you're probably the first person to mention that movie since release!
     
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  13. Anom@nder Rake

    Anom@nder Rake lives on the internet

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    quick, shit reviews of 2019 films i've recently watched:

    Joker - The King of Comedy remake with some murder thrown in

    The Irishman - way too long. first 2/3 is a typical Scorsese biopic.final third was interesting but not worth sitting through the first 2 hours. got the book for xmas and read it. it's a quicker read than a film viewing experience

    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood - pointless film. i'd rather listen to a podcast of Tarantino talking about spaghetti westerns than sit through this crap. the fake film posters were pretty cool though

    Midsommar - too long. it was an ambitious idea to make a horror film during daylight. the set is incredible but the script is lacking

    Avengers: Endgame - i can't fathom how someone could sit through 20+ of these films to get to this one and then be like "yea, that was worth it"
     
  14. challenge_everything

    challenge_everything Active Member

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    Agree 100% on all that, except I thought Midsommar was still very good overall.
     
  15. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    :rolleyes: That racism making you think it wasn't a good film? Jesus Christ.
     
  16. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    Midsommar didn't feel long to me for some reason, had to look it up and it sits at 147 minutes. I didn't even realise. Unlike Hereditary which actually had an engaging and interesting story, Midsommar was mostly a cinematic aesthetic wankfest and I didn't feel invested in the story nor any of the characters (which amounted to a pretty generic slasher film teen cast). Beautifully filmed, some nice gore, that's really about it. Definitely not better than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood or The Irishman.
     
  17. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    I thought Midsommar was hilarious on second viewing, and have come to think it's not a horror film at all but actually a black comedy about graduate study. Unlike horror films, which typically rely on tension and suspense, Midsommar featured sustained dramatic irony that distances the audience, mostly precluding any visceral experience of terror. It's a very strange technique for a "horror" film.
     
    #17137 Einherjar86, Jan 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  18. challenge_everything

    challenge_everything Active Member

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    Also a satire on tourism; those who seek out a cute folksy cultural experience and are gloriously ill-prepared.
     
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  19. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    At times it seemed like an autistic American Pie, Dani and Christian's relationship was so unrelatable that I just didn't even give a shit at the developments throughout the film. Don't want to give the impression I didn't like it, but I definitely think it flopped hard in some areas.

    Interesting, but I think that's somewhat tenuous since the film implies that they didn't necessarily seek out a cute folksy cultural experience, they were manipulated by Pelle.
     
  20. challenge_everything

    challenge_everything Active Member

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    They all went with different motivations, some went to get the cultural experience for the purpose of phd, some went to get high, but it's all a form of tourism (plenty of backpackers go to some unique place just to get drunk or stoned). I found the fates of the various characters quite effective satire on their respective privileges eg
    the phd student gets killed while trespassing in the sacred temple, the culturally insensitive stoner kid gets lured to his death after pissing on the sacred tree.
     

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