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The Political & Philosophy Thread

Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by End of Glory, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    Wow, seriously? You're a natural at twisting other people's words.

    I'm fine with regulating and controlling the flow of people into our country. I'm not okay with the targeting that is currently taking place.

    You said you were surprised that I'm unfamiliar with it. I understand the very simple point it was making. I'm not sure what my reaction to it is supposed to be.
     
  2. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    My bad. I meant any additional*. I think targeting places like Iraq and Yemen is completely reasonable. I would quibble with having Iran on there and not Saudi Arabia, but nothing about this is "beyond the pale".

    You had quoted my comment about finding it interesting but not put any text to go with the quote, that's all. I figured you had meant to respond.
     
  3. arg

    arg Active Member

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    I love Trump and his cabinet's strategy. Hit hard, unapologetically, without flinching. Fully aware there will be protests, but he gives 0 fucks. Makes him look strong, as a leader should be.

    Sure there will be costs and consequences. But it's important to show who is the fucking boss. Unlike Obama who was everyone's bitch.
     
    #923 arg, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  4. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    So far there hasn't been that much difference in the actual policies of Obama and Trump.....
     
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  5. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    I disagree. But let's not race around in circles.

    I did mean to, but I basically said everything in my last response (i.e. above). I think I understand what the graphic means, but I'm not sure what my reaction is supposed to be. You could shed some light on why you posted it...
     
  6. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    This is what I meant regarding the conservative vs liberal perspective on relations and obligations. I can't find anything specific regarding a theory that relates to this rough model but it does have at least some overlap with Bronfenbrenner's social ecology model which you may have (or should have) been exposed to in undergrad.

    This model provides structure to relations and delineates levels of obligation. I have greater obligation to my wife than my brother, I have greater obligation to my brother than you, and I have greater obligations to you than someone in Yemen. In fact, by the time we get to some person in Yemen, I'm already more or less tapped out, unless there is no need anywhere between myself and that person (which is basically never the case).
     
  7. Einherjar86

    Einherjar86 Active Member

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    None of that refutes anything I've said.

    And no, I don't know Brofenbrenner.
     
  8. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    Nope. :D

    False. Under Obama the definition of a deportation came to also include being turned away at the border.

    This is an epic piece of mental gymnastics. There is no such thing as a law abiding illegal immigrant and by definition they are the people who actually shouldn't be here.

    I think you have a good point about the impracticality of the situation though, with backlogs of court appeals etc. They should focus on the more dangerous criminal illegal immigrants.
     
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  9. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    "law abiding people who broke the law" :lol: I don't know why I don't have cf on ignore.
     
  10. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    This Trump travel ban is a clusterfuck holy shit.
     
  11. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    Yeah there's this greencard issue about which there are differing opinions, but it does seem that if indeed this is an actual intended prohibition that's a serious oversight.
     
  12. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    I don't really see how Trump can't or won't immediately roll this back. I don't understand why he had to go all-out North Korea with this issue, rather than perhaps going Israel which in comparison to what he's doing right now seems damn near open border-esque.

    What a massive fuck up.
     
  13. crimsonfloyd

    crimsonfloyd Active Member

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    I'm really not into this sort of use of semantics to try and blanket all undocumented immigrants as criminals. As someone who lives in a city full of undocumented immigrants, it just comes off as so damn useless, other than to give conservatives a hard on.

    First, if you want use that line of reasoning the vast majority of Americans are criminals for doing illegal drugs, driving under the influence, and committing other common crimes. Most people have made at least one dumb as fuck decision in their lives, whether they were caught or not.

    Second, I would argue that even if you want to take your stick-up-the-ass-dictionary-definition of a criminal, many undocumented immigrants who were brought here as children (and I would argue weren't in a position to give or not give consent) are undocumented but aren't criminals.

    On your second point, we're in agreement.
     
  14. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    One-off instance = constant state of existence. Hey false equivalence!
     
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  15. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    The obvious difference is that being an illegal immigrant is not a static crime, unlike drugs, which are isolated acts. If you're in a country illegally, every second you're there you're breaking its laws.

    Edit: Dak beat me to it.

    Things have meanings, nothing to do with sticks and asses.

    That's a fair point, its the same as any child who benefits from the crimes of their parents (eg stolen goods) but does that mean they get to remain if their parents are removed or should they go too?
     
  16. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/...s-green-card-holders-wont-be-barred.html?_r=0

    The one legit problem with the current EO is clarified/reversed. Nothing to see here.

     
  17. crimsonfloyd

    crimsonfloyd Active Member

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    Wrong. Illegal entry is a crime. Unlawful presence is not a crime. You're not from this country, so I get you not knowing this.

    https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/F...ted_immigrants_issue_brief_PUBLIC_VERSION.pdf

    That's a key aspect of the DACA debate. You already know my answer.
     
  18. crimsonfloyd

    crimsonfloyd Active Member

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    Not false equivalence since the acts I mentioned are discrete crimes just like illegal entry. Unlawful presnece isn't a crime. If you are too ignorant to even know your own country's laws on immigration, keep your mouth shut on the issue.
     
  19. Nephilim96

    Nephilim96 Member

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    Anybody who thinks DeVos and Bannon are good choices is a fuckwit
     
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  20. CiG

    CiG So Long Suckers

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    Oh okay, so unlawful presence isn't a crime if you were born to illegal immigrant parents or the conditions of your stay are violated (Visa ran out, dropped out of school, etc).

    This suggests that roughly half of all illegal immigrants are engaging in unlawful presence though, as it claims that roughly half of all illegal immigrants didn't enter legally.

    Intelligent argument. Congrats.

    But seriously, besides the creepiness inherent in a media CEO joining the Whitehouse organisation, what do you object to with regards to Bannon?
     

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