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The Star Wars Thread

Discussion in 'Nevermore' started by WhiteBeastofWotan, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    LOL. Well, you aren't entirely wrong about the general feeling of this particular film, but JJ Abrams didn't write or direct this. Rian Johnson (Brick, Looper, The Brothers Bloom) did. As many issues as I had with The Force Awakens, it was a much better written (yeah, that's what I just said...written), directed and edited film than The Last Jedi. Most importantly, despite being so derivative, it still very much felt like a Star Wars film.

    The Last Jedi got all sorts of critical praise, but for all of the wrong reasons. It also seems like so many of the glaring problems with the film are hand-waved away or simply swept under the rug by those that believe being subverise is a virtue in itself, and that change, regardless of how it actually serves the story is something to appreciate. Oh, and of course the heavy-handed, or borderline infantile way certain "lessons" or themes were handled. When they weren't being pounded into your face with the subtlety of a jackhammer anyway.

    There are so many things wrong with this film, but it's hard to discuss without getting into spoilers, so I'll just sum up my general thoughts.

    Pros:

    Really well shot for the majority of the film. One of the best looking Star Wars films so far. For all but around thirty minutes at least.
    A pretty cool fight with lightsabers (that isn't an actual lightsaber duel).
    A certain cameo. Some people really dislike this, but aside from a questionable display of something, didn't bother me too much.
    Rey, Kylo Ren and Luke were the standout performances, but that had more to do with the material they had to work with than it does the rest of the cast not being up to par.

    Cons:

    SJW: A Disney Story. I'm 100% for diversity, but I don't appreciate it when the way it's handled is to meet some kind of quota, which is exactly how it was handled in this film. To me, that's even worse than having less diversity. And yes, the film was entirely about how men are stupid and that women know best. Rian Johnson was even given his own Star Wars trilogy to direct before this even hit the theaters because of how much Disney was impressed with this. Hmm, Kathleen Kennedy have much influence here? Nah...

    Product placement. Porgs have a reason to exist in this film, but beyond the initial reasoning (part of which was the location the film was shot), they are there for no other reason than to sell toys. Even the Ewoks did something in Return of the Jedi, and their village was very memorable too.

    Plot holes. So many fucking plot holes or huge leaps in logic that still never made any sense. Too many convenient contrivances that go well beyond the realms of believable coincidences...in a fucking film based around the force. It doesn't follow its own rules of logic. At times it seemed like the film was written in a random flowchart style where the ending was already figured out, then the beginning and everything was then connected via if/then scenarios. When that was done, it's as though Johnson still didn't feel that was enough, so he just randomly started throwing darts at the board.

    Things that were completely discarded or given very unsatisfactory answers to from The Force Awakens. JJ Abrams actually did set up quite a few interesting ideas in that film, which I think most expected to be answered in this film. Nope. This film is a clear case of the left hand not talking to the right. Certain events take place that a lot of "fans" have an issue with regarding specific characters, but I'm mostly neutral. I didn't have any major beefs except for one.

    Returning characters basically being thrown under the bus just so that newer, and ridiculously underdeveloped characters could have more time on screen in a film that was already too long.

    The humor was so tone-deaf and distracting. The film undercut so many dramatic scenes with Marvel styled humor that didn't fit at all. Star Wars always had humor, but it always had its own brand and each character usually had their own style. Most of all, other than the stupid Jar Jar shit, it had been consistent.

    The editing and pacing. Oh my god was this just awful. Even excusing everything else, this was just really fucking bad. There's also a near forty minute sequence (illogical at that) that actually looks like they took something out of the prequels and inserted it into an entirely different film. Just awful.

    I still can't decide if this is as bad as the prequels or not. The prequel film that I came closest to actually liking was Revenge of the Sith, but it only had maybe forty-five minutes worth of content that I truly liked. The rest was either handled very poorly, or just looked like a video game. The Last Jedi probably has at least an hour and a half (the movie is two and a half hours) of stuff I legitimately like, but it's so uneven, and has so many things wrong with it that it's hard for me to say that I really liked the film overall.

    Anyway, JJ Abrams is back to co-write and direct Episode IX. With the way this film ended however, I have no idea what he's going to do, because he's essentially left with a mess that could have been so much more based off of what he had previously setup.
     
    #301 Talking Backwards, Dec 23, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  2. lorinc

    lorinc Member

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    I actually liked it better than The force Awakens and I don't think it's a bad movie. It's just average, maybe even a little more, but that doesn't reach the expectations I had for a Star Wars movie.

    I also liked the performances of Rey, Kylo Ren and Luke. Especially Luke since Mark Hamill is not really a stellar actor in my book (was positively surprised by this). Kylo Ren is also much much better and the performance of Adam Driver is very much above his from TFA which mainly has to do with the character stopping being stupid a 14 years old dickhead that you want to smack in the head and lock in his room every 2 minutes or so.

    But:
    - I hated it being a Disney movie targeted at 8 years old kids. This film has the moral values of a nursery rhymes. It's so exaggerated it's become ridiculous.
    - I know and love that Star Wars isn't hardcore scifi, but the film rapes physics beyond what you would ever imagined. It's the same with the plot holes that are solved via deus ex machinas in such a repeated and systematic way that it kills you suspension of disbelief. I watched the film yelling "Why didn't you do that 2 hours ago?" and "That makes no sense".
    - But the thing I found the most irritating were the Disney villains. All the bad guys in this movie are grotesque buffoons. There are not scary, there are stupid and clumsy and everybody makes fun of them. Right at the start of the movie, what turns out to be a major villain is mocked for 5 minutes straight and has no credibility for the remaining. Frankly, this is the biggest departure from the original universe in my opinion. The original trilogy had the most badass villains of all time. Even the prequels had credible villains. This? Not much. I kept having the impression that you could slap the villains in the face and they would sit crying in the corner of the room. Now try that with Vader or even a Moff... I hate those Disney buffoony villains designed such that kids would not have nightmare after seeing the movie, they killed my enjoyment as a grown up.
     
  3. CiG

    CiG Infrared Horizon

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    Have you only seen him act in Star Wars films?
     
  4. lorinc

    lorinc Member

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    I've seen Body Bags, and I remember him on the Wing Commander IV game, both of which were not very good. I'm not a cinephile, though.
     
  5. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter Not faggoty deathcore

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    I'm pretty lenient on the Star Wars universe because I like it all and I'm a fanboy of all of it, but you are right this time, and you're not being overly critical. This film feels like fan fiction instead of canon.

    I thoroughly enjoyed TFA but I was not happy with the direction this movie took. It's a good movie but it's not a good Star Wars movie. This director literally threw away (Skywalker lightsaber scene) any and all buildup Abrams had built up, cutting its legs out from underneath it and castrating it. Abrams did a great job, imo, but this guy has an agenda and seems to think that changing the core premise of the entire saga would be a good thing. It's not.

    Why is it so fucking difficult to make Star Wars movies how people want them? IT'S FUCKING STAR WARS, not some pretentious art house film; you don't have to make a social statement. Stop sacrificing canon and lore and story for your own fucking agenda.
     
    #305 Dead Winter, Dec 23, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
  6. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    I forgot to mention that all the way up until the end, one of the new characters (no, not purple hair, who probably did have something going on with Leia on the side...) seemed to have been created by every other possible trope that I was expecting her to also turn out to be a lesbian--which is no big deal, but of course that's not really why they are ever portrayed anymore though.

    But, that assumption was dashed as soon as an out of fucking nowhere kiss happened...LMAO.
     
  7. CiG

    CiG Infrared Horizon

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    :lol:
     
  8. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    Oh, haha. Well, at least I got to make my "VaJJ Abrams" joke :D
     
  9. Karmic

    Karmic speedy meatmonger

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    Was actually quite disappointed with how some of the characters that got introduced in TFA disappeared pretty fast (at least from what we know) without much character develpoment. Even with some weaknesses I did enjoy how story elements weren't just the standard "oh CRAZY IDEA it'll work for sure". It could have been better, but I'm glad they took a different route than just redoing the formula (which people complained JJ Abrams did in TFA). Lots of parts could have been done better but still a pretty solid movie.

    Kylo was a much better character in this than whatever he was supposed to be in TFA.
     
  10. Dead Winter

    Dead Winter Not faggoty deathcore

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    I did like Kylo Ren in this one more so than in TFA. In fact, I think he's my favorite character in the film because he's the only one with any depth and apparently is the only character they wanted to develop, while everyone else is a mile wide but an inch deep. I do like the fact that we don't know what the fuck is going on now, but I didn't like how we arrived here.
     
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  11. ~Lynn~

    ~Lynn~ Bah...

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    Walked out after 40 minutes, fuck disney.

    [​IMG]
     
    CiG likes this.
  12. DarkGift

    DarkGift ov Doom

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    so fucking disappointed in this movie. worse than episode 1 :(
     
  13. ~Lynn~

    ~Lynn~ Bah...

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    ...this was not the star wars I was looking for.
     
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  14. ~Lynn~

    ~Lynn~ Bah...

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  15. DarkGift

    DarkGift ov Doom

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    It's an older meme... but it checks out
     

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