This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Thermodynamics and Alternative Energy

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Justin S., Apr 18, 2005.

  1. Justin S.

    Justin S. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
  2. unknown

    unknown fuck ftagn

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Messages:
    14,820
    Likes Received:
    623
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Red Tower

    that would be a sight to see...mushroom clouds everywhere on the roads...

    at any rate...the expiration of oil will have a rather devastating effect on the economy in the US seeing as we're the largest oil consumers by far. automobile wise? I would love to see a shift towards electric cars or something. There was an interesting article on the Toyota Prius in the latest issue of Wired.

    the US is going to be really fucked economically over the next decade or so at least in numerous ways.
     
  3. Zhou Tai 04

    Zhou Tai 04 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    571
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    WI
  4. Justin S.

    Justin S. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Whoa... stay away from that one. Bearden is a quack who refuses peer review and replication of experiements... the guy claims all kinds of shit including stumbling upon unified field theory :tickled: .
     
  5. Justin S.

    Justin S. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Almost done with the paper. It is taking a little longer than i expected due to the sheer volume of information (trying to condense it down to 10-12 pages so people will actually read it!) Sorry for the tease. At the absolute latest, I will post the link here the weekend after next.
     
  6. dorian gray

    dorian gray Returning videotapes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Messages:
    20,753
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    unified field theory. classic.
    i like me some physics; looking forward to readin your paper.
    my thought: many of the things we perceive as problems would be eliminated by population control. imagine the effect on the world if people chilled with the kid child production for ten years. thatd be sweet. interestingly though, even if a plague wiped out 99% of the population, the remaining humans would go right back to destroying their own habitat.
    hydrogen cars: arent these in fairly widespread in Iceland?
    Aren't new and alternative diesels coming to light? thats an interesting fuel. still a petroleum product but amazingly efficient (compared to gasoline).
     
  7. cthulufhtagn

    cthulufhtagn stop. just....stop.

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,640
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    south of washington
    i believe you're referring to biodiesel? i'm hardly an expert but i've heard some positive things, perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can fill us in...
     
  8. Justin S.

    Justin S. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Both Diesel engines and fuel have come along way in the last 15 years. I will address both, but the main focus will be hydrogen.

    I am very pro-diesel- the new VW's can get comparable if not better gas milage than the hybirds, including better torque, and low speed/rpm performance. The pollution and noise of the past has been significantly reduced.

    Concerning biodiesel, there are some nice benefits, but also some big setbacks as far as viability on a mass scale. All that bio extract has to come from somewhere and that uses quite a bit of land, and hydrocarbon resources. All ways tradeoffs...
     
  9. AsModEe

    AsModEe also known as ass-mode

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Québec City
    An alternative source of energy must be made of something else than oil and I think we should forget about that new diesel. The biodiesel is interesting, but let's not forget that oil ressources will be depleted in less than 50 years so why bothering finding new ways of developping oil products???

    I hope I made myself clear, sometimes I can use fucked up sentence structures.
     
  10. the alumnus

    the alumnus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    i also agree that there is not 1 magical solution to the energy crisis that is looming. i have considered the problem, and feel that it will require real investment in alternatives, as well as a fundamental change in the way we use our resources.
    1. the suburbs are not sustainable. while new variants of the internal combustion engine will delay the inevitable loss of gas, the price of gas will make suburban living collapse. why should anyone be able to live in the middle of sprawl and drive a hummer? its a ridiculous waste of resources.
    2. variants to the internal combustion engine will become widespread. hybrid cars are very fuel efficient, but i foresee the development of a hybrid diesel. consider that diesels get maybe 3x the fuel economy of a gasoline engine, if one were couple with hybrid technology a small car can easily get in excess of 60 mpg. also consider that a properly set up diesel burn almost 100% clean. not quite zero emissions, but pretty close. the electric motors would take care of the problem that diesels have with cold starts and slow accelerations.
    3. renewable fuels-biodiesel looks promising because it can be made from rapeseed oil or soy oil. it also burns cleaner that diesel and its emissions are less toxic to the environment. while it is true that the process of growing and refining biodiesel will require energy imputs, they can be obtained through supplements.
    4. supplements-i am looking mostly at nuclear energy. while its true that nuclear power is not a renewable resource, it does have deeper reservoirs that oil, and its a clean source of energy. assuming that one properly processes and stores nuclear waste, it is a zero emission energy source.
    5. solar power is often overlooked because its fundamental flaw is that it only works when the sun shines. what happens when its night? no lights. but that doesn't mean that it should be disregarded altogether. photovoltaic arrays can be built on rooftops that are currenly unused (wasted) space. during daylight hours they can supplement the power grids, and during the night the grid will fill in the gaps (with #4, nuclear power). it is zero emission and will work for the next 3 billion years, at which point the sun will explode.
    6.wind power-also zero emission, can be used to supplement the grid. it would be ideal for our vast and windy expanses on the great plains. similar problem to solar, it only works when its windy.

    i think that if society is willing to implement the 6 fundamental changes that i described, as well as some heavy committments to conservation, we may be able to survive with a quality of life somewhere near where we are at right now. though it could be wishful thinking.
     
  11. AsModEe

    AsModEe also known as ass-mode

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Québec City
    I think we can forget about wind and solar vehicules, it just won't work. We should head for either nuclear energy (which I doubt will be taken into serious consideration before say... 50 years) or the hydrogen pile.

    Talking of nuclear energy, I read somewhere that the shuttle that will transport the first to walk on Mars will use nuclear energy, does anyone have confirmation on this?
     
  12. the alumnus

    the alumnus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    hmmm, perhaps i need to revise my post. i wasn't referring to wind and solar power in regards to power vehicles directly. rather, they would supplement the energy grid that would power a biodiesel refinery or hydrogen processing station (for those crazy hydrogen cars).

    i haven't heard of a nuclear space transport, those a discover magazine from earlier this year had an article on plans for a nuclear rocket that was abandoned some 40 years ago (i think).
     
  13. AsModEe

    AsModEe also known as ass-mode

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,602
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Québec City
    No you don't need to revise your post, I just didn't read it all :lol:
     
  14. Pessimism

    Pessimism Endemic Vagabond

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    10,153
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    SoCal
    i have a question: what will happen to earth when all the oil has been pumped?
     
  15. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    17,892
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Hallways of Always
    likely there will be cavities of empty space in the crust, or they will fill with another material. i don't think the earth itself will suffer greatly at the loss of oil, but civilization needs to seek other fuels or we will suffer at its loss.
     
  16. dorian gray

    dorian gray Returning videotapes

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Messages:
    20,753
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    word. i've been fascinated with suburbia since i was old enough to drive - i think sprawl is a great way to study modern human behavior. i long for the day when suburbs actually disentigrate - the reverse of white flight. actually, i think it's started in medium sized cities like nashville.
     
  17. Justin S.

    Justin S. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Im finally done, and man am i sick of this topic! What a hassle the 15 page limit was... i have 25 or so and had to chop it all down. This easily could have turned into a BA topic, or even a large book if one where so inclined. Because of this, its not the smoothest, nor most comprehensive paper in the world but it does present a fair amount of valuable information that took a while to compile. Its still a little rough, typos and a few minor grammatical mistakes, but ill clean it up a little before i show it to anyone important (not you guys ;)

    Id really appreciate feedback from you all. Know any good place to to host it?
     
  18. the alumnus

    the alumnus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    yousendit.com is a popular choice for hosting on this forum.
     

Share This Page