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Thoughts On BM Composition

Discussion in 'General Metal Discussion' started by anonymousnick2001, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    This thread might seem like an effort to stir up trouble...at first…but bear with me.​


    Can black metal have verse/chorus/verse structure? I assumed BM usually had narrative or classical structure, or crafted minimalist epics like early Bathory or Darkthrone?​


    Is BM about being "heavy?" I don’t mean heavy like Pleasure To Kill or Despise The Sun, as in relentlessness or brutal technicality. I mean heavy the way Dark Funeral or Korn/Slipknot perceive heavy.​


    What are some examples of cheesy or stereotypical BM lyrics? I don’t mean bands. I mean like snippets or examples. What would be "good" BM lyrics? I want actual examples, if that’s okay. The song content is not important. I'd prefer examples that deal with naturalism as opposed to anti-Christian ideals, though.​


    I understand that these responses won’t be purely objective. Try hard to be as factual as possible…but I also want your opinions. If you haven’t figured out where I’m going with this, I’ll explain eventually. It's for a personal purpose.​


    Right now I’m just tossing this out as food for thought. I’d really appreciate if the UM GMD community could help me find some concrete answers for these questions.​
     
  2. Erik

    Erik New Metal Member

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    People misunderstand the term "heavy." None of your uses are valid. Heavy is Black Sabbath, Saint Vitus, "The Chemical Wedding" and diSEMBOWELMENT. It is not synonymous with "extreme," "relentless" or "brutal." It is being bludgeoned to death by riffs like an oil tanker loaded with anvils. Of fucking course black metal has this; if you say anything different, I have a BA-PHO-MET-IN-STEEL-FOR-THE-FLESH-OF-CAIN and a PRO-CRE-ATION-OF-THE-WICK-ED!!! here that would like to disagree with you. Is black metal about being heavy? Of course not, but having a discussion with you of all people regarding what black metal is about is like talking to a brick, so I'll just leave it at that for now, though undoubtedly the idiocy that most certainly will surface in this thread will bring me back to smite you with the power of font size seven, and FUCKING FUCK in bold type.
     
  3. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    You totally missed the point of the thread. I told you this thread wasn't about me pushing my views of what BM is about.

    I'm trying to prove a point about a BM song to a fellow band member who has misconceptions about BM composition. I didn't want his feelings to get hurt in case he saw the thread, but I guess I have to let the cat out of the bag now.

    Although I highly doubt you care, I'm utterly disappointed by your tendency of placing such a high amount of blunt disdain in every post made towards me because we disagree on SOME things. Grow the fuck up. You don't see me treating you like shit because I don't agree with you.
     
  4. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    Well, could you keep that in mind and try and help me with this, please? I really don't want to come off as the foremost authority on BM or whatever...I just strongly wish to cling to my belief of what I think BM is.

    However, that's for another time.

    Right now, I'm trying to talk some sense into a friend who wants to write a BM song without any idea about BM composition. I'd just like some kind of solid ground on the method of BM composition, so I can help the band create something of aesthetic worth instead of a cheesy piece of BM stereotype.

    Right now a verse/chorus/verse song with pointless blasting, a pointless 'epic' march intro(which sounds cool but means nothing), two or three riffs toal, and a title of "Demonic Hordes" is not really what I was hoping would be our first attempt at BM.
     
  5. Episteme

    Episteme Member

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    I'm not the greatest black metal expert listener in the world and I'm actually quite drunk as I type this, so bare with my stupidity...

    I think most black metal contains narrative, minimalist or classical structure. But I was listening to Nachtfalke's Doomed to Die and it actually used more verse/chorus/verse structure, this changed with Hail Victory Teutonia which had longer more epic songs with narrative structure. I know a local band here called The Furor that rely on verse/chorus/verse structure in some songs. I'm sure there are more but I can't be stuffed going through my whole music collection briefly right now.


    Call me crazy, but I think there are different grounds on being heavy. For example, Black Sabbath maybe heavy...so may Immolation...hell, even Graveland. They're just "heavy" in different ways according to their genres of metal. To me black metal's "heaviness" would come from the flow of the riffs and the sinister atmosphere that is being created. I know the stereotypical black metal would use minor chords to show a sense of "wickedness" and "depression". Also the production of black metal let's its "heaviness" shine through. But if you're referring to the way "mallcore" defines heavy, I guess, no I don't think black metal will be "heavy".

    I like lyrics that deal with naturalism and folklore moreso than anti-christian or NS themes, but as long as it's done well in a pretty intelligent manner it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not too sure where to find cheesy or stereotypical BM lyrics because I've been recommended bands on GMD that aren't relatively too bad.

    There we go.
     
  6. Henrik Main

    Henrik Main Hello

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    That's merely norsecore. However, I fail to see how you, with your beliefs and all, would want to play in a black metal band?
     
  7. Crimson Velvet

    Crimson Velvet Sønn av Syperi

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    I just don't get it! When people drink, why the hell do they visit message boards?! Quite sad, really... (Although he did make some good points.)

    But on to the point, in my mind, black metal shouldn't have that verse/chorus/verse thing going. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that a black metal song could turn out cool in spite of that, just look at newer Immortal, but for black metal to truly reach its full potensial, it needs something else. If I were you, I would just for that whole Darkthrone/Burzum progression to reach that fantastic epic-ness. I won't say more than that, seeing as I've never written a black metal riff in my life.
     
  8. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    The sad part is this:

    He owns a number of releases that are probably better than Marduk and Dark Funeral. Namely, Satyricon's Shadowthrone and Burzum's Hviss Lyset Tar Oss. He claims the Satyricon album was written in two months by Satyr alone, and he says that Burzum is "really not complex" so creating a great "heavy" BM song should be easy.

    Our song's really not so great. There is a main tremolo riff that is repeated so often that it grates the brain, and his way of combating it was to "play it down low so it sounds different." Our guitarist came up with an interesting march-type riff for the intro, but it has no context with the music.

    I was thinking we'd have a song in three phases and develop musical themes throughout or something like that. No random time-switching or anything. No wanky guitar solos. NO drum solos. I know that I can't come up with it on my own. He seems to have his song all figured out in his own mind.
     
  9. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    Well, to avoid the derailing of the topic, I'll simply say that I hear BM on a purely aesthetic level, and enjoy and respect it enough to want to try it. We're not a purely BM band, anyway. We've written a few songs that seem to have leaned in the thrash/death direction.

    If I were to play anything BM-ish, Marduk and Dark Funeral wouldn't be what I'd want to play. I like their music, actually, but I'd want to play something more along the lines of Windir, Einherjer, or Falkenbach.
     
  10. ThePhilosopher

    ThePhilosopher Metal??

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    I'm no black metal guitarist, but I do play in a metal band. I think that in order for you to play any style of music well, you need to understand it inside and out, especially something like black metal, before you can compose it decently yourself. It's really more of a "feeling" type thing than anything else. Composition in metal is just something that has to be learned over time with trial and error.
     
  11. Hell Mike

    Hell Mike fuck melodic black metal

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    It's all about the feeling
     
  12. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    I'd hate to have to use trial-and-error in this case, though. I'd hate to play such a travesty of a tune on a stage.

    Why does thrash come so naturally then?

    Edit: Stupid question. I've been listening to thrash forever compared to black metal.

    Erik's method probably won't work because my friend is hard-headed and thinks he knows everything. He'll use one example of one band doing it his way to justify it. Are there any other suggestions?
     
  13. ShadowOfDeath

    ShadowOfDeath Warrior of Black Metal

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    Yes it can. Black metal song structures are actually very broad. It depends on what you plan to do.

    I don't have any examples of good lyrics outside the anti-christian ones because I don't regularly look for good lyrics. That or the lyrics are in another language anyways.
     
  14. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    This BM song has the same purpose as a Liquid Tension Experiment song. I like LTE, but aside from instrumental pyrotechnics, nothing.
     
  15. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    I don't have that kind of authority, and he's my friend.

    I'm a pussy, I know...
     
  16. anonymousnick2001

    anonymousnick2001 World's Greatest Vocalist

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    In reality, all this thread did was reaffirm my faith in my own judgment. Maybe we'll work it out somehow. I'll try the first thing you said, Erik...
     
  17. no country for old wainds

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    Yes, I was going to bring up Nachtfalke as well. I think narrative structure isn't INTEGRAL to black metal, merely that it allows for a far greater scope in almost all cases. Verse-chorus is generally far too limiting, it tends not to allow for any kind of meaningful musical journey.

    As for heaviness, black metal could be classed as "heavily absorbing" or other such things, but the way people tend to use the 'term' heavy shouldn't apply. I find that most of the best death metal is devastating by nature in that it's forceful and relentless chaos, but black metal's aims are generally quite different, and normally far too subtle for 'heaviness'.

    Bad lyrics:
    Havohej
    Dethrone The Son Of God


    Rip the sacred flesh
    Sodomize the holy asshole
    Drink the red blood of the mother of earth
    Masturbation on the dead body of christ
    The king of Jews is dead
    and so are the lies
    Vomit on the host of Heaven
    Masturbate on the throne of God
    Break the seals of angels
    Drink the sweet blood of Christ
    Taste the flesh of the priest
    Sodomize holy nuns
    The king of Jews is a liar
    The Heavens will burn
    Dethrone the son of God
    God is dead
    Holyness is gone
    Purity is gone
    Prayers are burned
    Covered in black shit
    Rape the holy ghost
    Unclean birth of Jesus Christ
    Heaven will fall
    Fuck the church
    Fuck Christ
    Fuck the Virgin
    Fuck the gods of Heaven
    Fuck the name of Jesus

    I'll also add that you shouldn't try to have "BM lyrics" separate to your music - they should be at one with the music, and you should think of a theme and a unique idea to explore before trying to create anything.
     
  18. Perdition's Light

    Perdition's Light dinosaur jr.

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    say what you will about their music, I don't think black metal lyrics come any better than Deathspell Omega's:

    Carnal Malefactor
    Below the lid of a vast rounded monument
    Trickling of gristly vestiges and whacked hopes
    Enhanced by the horrible excess of fetid exhalation
    And uterine strangulation by the wreaths
    Of the herds astray, arid in despair, blessed
    With dilated flakes of fire, slowly wafting down…
    Say, what does a maternal heart feel when merely
    Vinegar stills your child’s thirst?
    You’d implore to harbour his torment in your chest…
    To make his burden yours, but…Sacrilege!
    Who are you, harlot, to interfere with His emerald will
    When even your glance should never leave the soil?

    There resides the fusion, there is the nucleus
    Angel prick and holy semen,
    And a woman genuflecting an aroused beast of burden alike
    Seduced by the father and seducing the son
    There resides the fusion, there is the nucleus
    A phallic communion that sanctifies interior wastelands

    He that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption
    Carnal malefactor, rub your sterile wriggling womb
    With a candle in reverential contemplation
    And give voluptuous harbour to vile insects
    He that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption
    The scorpion shall open the book of Solomon for you to see
    And the snake slither out of the lips that delivered once
    The redeemer of man, born out of shameful maternity…
    He that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption
    The lactiferous Beast subjugated reason to appetite
    Praised be human nature, ciborium of shame and waste,
    For bathing in decline a redeemer moist of
    Semen so contemptible

    There resides the fusion, there is the nucleus
    Angel prick and holy semen,
    And a woman genuflecting an aroused beast of burden alike
    Seduced by the father and seducing the son
    There resides the fusion, there is the nucleus
    A phallic communion that sanctifies interior wastelands
    When a woman is knead by the claws of fowls attracted
    By seminal odours no longer hidden by dignity
    And purified by their beaks rummaging her swollen vagina
    When laments alter into praises despite holy duty
    And menacing perdition
    Seers can say that his birth does death subdue no more
    His birth does death subdue not, for my God
    Proceeds of failed humility…
    O Master, the eastern pillar of your domination is
    The organic fallibility.
     
  19. no country for old wainds

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    That song is fabulous.
     
  20. Perdition's Light

    Perdition's Light dinosaur jr.

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    Where the fuck did he learn to write like that? Attempting to mimic such a grand biblical style would be completely underwhelming from any other band I can think of, but somehow he pulls it off with grace as if he is somehow divinely (in the Deathspell Omega sense of the word) inspired himself.
     

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