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Tracking guitar question (play right through vs riff at a time)

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by batcave1, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. batcave1

    batcave1 New Metal Member

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    Hi Guys

    Just wanted to see what the general opinion was on tracking guitars

    I've seen quite a few metal bands on youtube vids (including fairly big name ones) recording riffs or parts of a song at a time ie not tracking all the way through.

    Obviously if there is clean/dirty/effect changes going on it makes sense to do it this way

    Anyhow I'm just wondering somewhat is the norm these days?
    Or do people still play from start to finish and punch in if there is problems?

    Main reason I'm asking is I have a couple of songs that are a nightmare technically to play (for me at least) so I'm considering trying to split it up a bit....

    How is the best way to join the tracks? crossfades etc?
    Really interested in this technique



    Also what tricks do you use for noise? tape/ foam hair bands etc for unused strings etc?
     
  2. FIXXXER

    FIXXXER ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    always try to record longer parts as it will sound more natural.
    playing a riff four times in a row definitively sounds better than playing the riff a single time and repeating it three times.
    my music is pretty simple so this works good, for more complex stuff you'll need more takes i guess.

    as for joining, crossfading the parts does often sound bad to me.
    i have developed a technique i haven't seen anywhere else so far.
    i leave a section before and after the actual clip, then mark the beginning/end and then set the fades manually.
    when repeating i place the clips on different tracks so these fade in/out into each other. lots of extra work but it definitively sounds better to me.

    if my explaination makes no sense i can upload a few pics showing how i do it exactly :)

    damping, hmm, muting the strings after the nut/behind the bridge is not a bad idea.
    i am using the TESLA VIBRATION DAMPER, a similar thing is the JIMMY CLIP thing, just ask google/youtube.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    i also mute single strings by placing foam pieces under the strings.
    for eyample, when recording rythm guitars i mute the hiher three
    strings by playing several pieces of foam in the region between the pickups.
    if definitively gives a much clearer sound.

    when tracking "lead" or let's say melodies as i suck at lead playing i use the GRUVGEAR FRETWRAPS.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. texisthebest

    texisthebest Member

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    Try what is better for you.
    In my case I find myself tracking with small parts because I need a lot of takes
    (I am not very good at playing) and I like to record everything just as I like.

    Sometimes I do some crossfade, sometimes just cut in a change of rythm.
    But I find myself playing short parts lot of times easier to play it better and get two take good for L/R.

    For noise the best trick is improve your performance. Cheers!
    (I have GRUVGEAR too)
     
  4. batcave1

    batcave1 New Metal Member

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    Thanks for the repliers

    FIXXXER I have the GRUV and I use little bits of foam as well, haven't seen the jimmy clip before they look great!

    If you could put up a picture or what you mean that would be awesome :)

    Oh BTW when I said riff I meant more verse/chorus etc

    I see people recording like that and I wondered how they splice it together
     
  5. Jormyn

    Jormyn Member

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    I just play until I fuck up, punch in a couple of bars earlier, rinse and repeat.
     
  6. FIXXXER

    FIXXXER ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    [​IMG]

    the yellow events are cut precisely to grid which can often sound chopped off etc.

    the orange events are cut slightly larger on every side. i use a 1/16 quantization and set really large fade in/outs.
    when you place the two events on different tracks the transition is really smooth. if it still sounds strange try to apply a different fade-stlye.

    it's time consuming, that's the big disadvantage but imho it sounds much better.

    you also have to place the events on different tracks as the fade parts can not
    overlap in the same track. now imagine having 20 tracks or more, this can easily become a mess, though
    you can always render the parts back together, takes even more time of course...
     
  7. varobinson

    varobinson Member

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    To me you do whatever works, I'm not a pro but do my best tracking demos for my band. When you write as you record as I do, you may not have had the time to master the particular part -- especially a relatively complex one. So you might try a bunch of takes and do the copy and paste part. Ok so I suppose that's a different context.

    If I were in a studio to do a formal recording, for somewhat straightforward parts which I'd played quite a bit live I'd expect to run through it all and punch in after as necessary. But really complex stuff, probably riff by riff.
     
  8. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    I usually select about 8-16 bars to work with but if I don't fuck up I'll keep going until I do. I manually check every crossfade and slip them around to where you can't hear any punch-in's/out's.
     
  9. Kohugaly

    Kohugaly Member

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    Here's what I usually do:

    1.select a section of a song/riff
    2.loop it
    3.record several (like a dozen) takes in a loop
    4.pick the best one (or best two for doubletracking)

    Often I don't even loop the song - just a drum loop for simplicity (programmed drums). This technique is especially useful if the song isn't rehearsed enough (which is my case - I usually compose and record demos this way). I heaven't met a guitarist who can deliver perfect playthrought of the whole song, especially if it's a new song = not perfectly rehearsed. If the guitarist is really good, you may try to get one "main" take and then re-record problematic sections.

    As for X-fading takes, I never do it (it never sounded natural to me). I prefer cutting the takes on zero-crossings and jointing them. Also be careful where you cut - cutting perfectly on beat may slice out a good portion of the attack. rather leave a few millisecond gap before and after (previously played note may decay there) and then cut it out later when jointing adject parts.

    As for damping unused strings, best way is (as mentioned before) to improve your playing style (which currently sux in my case :p ). I usually don't bother damping the strings cos' I usually record demo's (where sound quality is not so much of an issue). If I do then I put peace of cardboard/foam/cotton somewhere in the middle of the string (or closer to bridge) so it's not in a way of my hands when playing.
     
  10. Zerochance

    Zerochance Member

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    It depends on what I'm tracking. I like very layered solos, with lots of harmonies going in and out, and doubling parts and stuff, so I often do takes just for the harmonized bits. Occasionally I do over-extend myself and I run into a part I have to break down into smaller chunks, but for the most part, I try to do my takes for as long as possible. It does sound more naturally and it saves time and effort.

    Regardless, I always add markers to outline all the different parts regardless of how long my takes are. It makes it easier to reference if I want to go back and fix or change something. I never copy-and-paste. Even if it's a simple bit, I'd rather just play it through again. Those little differences add a lot of personality and it's just a matter of personal pride.
     
  11. abt

    abt BT

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    I don't understand, the top single track should sound fine, it it doesn't then something is wrong. Are you putting a cross fade between the clips?
     
  12. FIXXXER

    FIXXXER ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    i do crossfade, however it mostly sounds bad or "choppy". with my method i always have perfect transitions from event to event.
     
  13. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    Not to sound like a dick, but that's probably due to the playing.

    If you are tight enough, you shouldn't be able to tell at all if there's a fade/punch.
     
  14. FIXXXER

    FIXXXER ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    haha, no worries man, of course it is, otherwise i wouldn't have to deal with stuff like that and could jsut play through a song or at least the main parts :lol:
     
  15. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    I've seemed to have gotten really good at my timing with myself over the last 10 years. :lol:

    Now if only I could make money recording myself.........
     
  16. Genius Gone Insane

    Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com

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    What works for you may not work for someone else.

    If I track myself I prefer playing riff by riff. But if I am tracking others I will always start with two runthroughs of the whole song, one for left gtr, one for right gtr. Then we will go back and listen and identify the good parts and the parts that need to be retracked (which is usually most of the song). For those it just depends on how big the edit is.
     
  17. abt

    abt BT

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    I still don't get it, the clips on the single track are the same as the separate tracks right? At least that’s what they look like in the picture. If that's the case then you need to adjust your crossfades. You can even make them so the crossfades overlap so there's no change in volume between clips which is identical as having them on separate tracks.

    I don't think the problem with your transitions has anything to do with separate tracks or crossfades. I think it's because you're playing in from nowhere. That pretty much always sounds bad. I'd always recommend playing at least a few notes of the section before the cut. Even if you're just punching in a single note you should still play a few notes before it otherwise you'll have a noticeable transition.
     
  18. Pinknoise

    Pinknoise New Metal Member

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    I came up with the exact same thechnique as I did'nt like how the parts were coming togheter when recorded one after another.
     
  19. ForHerDeadEyes

    ForHerDeadEyes Señor Member

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    Okay.. "yellow" and orange..?
    That's green, right? Orange yes, but not yellow..
    I've been losing sleep over this, waking up in the middle of the night, screaming, sweaty.

    To answer the question, I do both.
    I play through the song from beginning to end a few times, and also the individual parts. Then go over the parts to see what's good and if anything needs to be fixed.
     
  20. FIXXXER

    FIXXXER ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    we should team up haha :lol:

    yes the parts are the same. when you cut the parts exactly to grid and then set crossfades you have these little bite where the event has, well a fade in/out. even it's only a few ms, it can sound bad sometimes. when you cut the events slightly larger, let's say 1/8 of the whole event and then place crossfades it's basically what i am doing manually. i also do not punch in directly, i play a few notes before and after the actual clip to get it as "even"
    as possible. i also record 10 to 20 takes until it's really absolutely perfect to the metronome.

    haha, good to know i am not the only using this weird time consuming method :lol:

    haha, i really failed on this, especially when you consider my schooling as a offset printer. i didn't pay much attention to the colours, though on a closer look it's definitively more of a neon green and slightly dilute orange. sorry about the loss of sleep :dopey:

    oh btw sorry for hijacking the thread, i need to get away from the PC, srsly...
     

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