This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

TUTORIAL : handling bass articulations with Trilian using a Guitar Pro MIDI track

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Djabthrash, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    TUTORIAL : handling bass articulations with Trilian using a Guitar Pro MIDI track :

    Hi, like some other people here, I write my music in Guitar Pro (I’m using Guitar Pro 5 btw) and then export it as MIDI to be used as a VSTi-played backing track in my DAW (Reaper for now, Cubase 5 later on).
    Whereas having your GP MIDI drums track work well with your drums VSTi (Superior 2 for me) requires almost no effort at all, the bass tracks are a bit trickier, since some of the articulations such as slides/legato are not VSTi-ready (well, at least for Trilian) when imported in your DAW.

    The issue has been discussed in that thread :

    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/541924-spectrasonics-trilian-bass.html

    I’ve finally found out how to do that so here is a tutorial for those who use the “Guitar Pro MIDI bass track into DAW played by Trilian VSTi” thing and struggle to have those specific articulations (slides/legato) played properly.

    DISCLAIMER : This tutorial is in a work in progress status, which means I’m still adding parts (including pics !) and editing the layout here and there, so for now it may not be completed, thorough and readable, but that should be the case soon hopefully.

    DISCLAIMER 2 : My English is far from perfect, let me know if I need to correct some parts language-wise.


    STEP 1 : EXPORTING A MIDI BASS TRACK WRITTEN IN GUITAR PRO :

    - Open a Guitar Pro file with a bass track that features specific articulations such as slides/legato.
    Example : Here is one track of mine that features a legato slide at the beginning of bar #XX (and regular notes for the rest of the bar) :
    INSERT SCREENSHOT of brutal song bass part with legato slide
    A legato slide means you’re hitting the first note (1; sliding note) and sliding to the next note (5; destination note) without hitting the latter. The first note is on beat 1, the second note is on beat 1,5 (is that correct ?). The 1->5 part lasts one beat, but the slide itself lasts half a beat.
    You can also notice that the bass tracks has some velocity changes here and there (there are 5 different velocities to choose from in Guitar Pro : Mezzo Forte / XX) to simulate a more realistic playing.

    - If you play this part back, it sounds alright, like a bass player is playing slides and stuff, but it sounds WEAK (which means the tone is good enough for songwriting but not good enough for a good production).
    -Now we’re gonna export that bass track in MIDI format.
    Before we export, we’re gonna erase the other tracks and leave the bass track only, so that GP only exports that bass track.
    For the export, do …

    STEP 2 : IMPORTING THE GP MIDI BASS TRACK IN YOUR DAW (REAPER) AND PLAYING IT BACK :
    - Open your Reaper Project File, and drag/drop the midi file on one available project track in Reaper.
    - Depending on your MIDI track import settings (in the Preferences Menu), you’re gonna import the GP MIDI bass multichannel track as a single multichannel track in Reaper.
    Indeed, this allows you to have your bass track on one track only, which makes it easier to manage and only uses one Trilian instance (which is better for CPU load in most cases anyway).
    INSERT SCREENSHOT
    NB : If you choose to export on several tracks, you will need to use two Trilian instances, and have the specific articulations (legato slide in our example) on the second track only, which is not necessary since they are on their own MIDI channel, which you can filter in the MIDI editor, and Trilian is designed to work on a single MIDI track that uses different MIDI channels, using a different “Part” from the “Multi” (INSERT TRILIAN MANUAL LINK AND PIC) for each channel if needed (which we do in our case).
    INSERT SCREENSHOT
    - So now let’s take a quick look at the single multichannel MIDI bass track we just created and see how the legato slide has been “translated” compared to the “regular” notes.
    INSERT SCREENSHOT
    Reaper, by default, displays the content of the whole multi channel track.
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF MULTI FILTER
    If we spot the legato slide part, we can see it’s on a different channel than the regular notes
    INSERT REGULAR NOTE SMIDI CHANNEL FILTER VIEW
    INSERT LEGATO SLIDE NOTE MIDI CHANNEL FILTER VIEW
    If we add the Pitch view at the bottom, you can see some pitch variations on those legato slide notes, whereas they don’t exist on the regular notes :
    INSERT REGULAR NOTE SMIDI CHANNEL FILTER VIEW with PITCH VIEW
    INSERT LEGATO SLIDE NOTE MIDI CHANNEL FILTER VIEW with PITCH VIEW
    By the way, back to the multichannel view, if you add the pitch view at the bottom, you can easily notice the legato slide parts :
    INSERT MULTICHANNEL with PITCH VIEW
    If you look more closely, you can see that the pitch variation simulates the slide itself AND the destination note (DOUBLE CHECK THAT IN MY PROJECT). As opposed to the Guitar Pro notation which features two notes (the starting slide note, and the destination note), the MIDI track in Reaper only features one note, which the starting slide note with pitch variations applied to it to finally reach the pitch of what formerly was the destination note. To sum it up, the original legato slide, which features two notes on a total 1 beat (quarter note) length (first note with slide on beat 1, the second note on beat 1,5 (is that correct, the slide in between lasts half a beat (including beat 1)), has been translated into a single note on a total 1 beat (quarter note) length (first note (quarter note length) on beat 1 with pitch variations).

    -Now it’s time to play this track back using Trilian VSTi and see how this sounds.
    We’re gonna insert Trilian VSTi as an insert FX on our bass track in Reaper
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF TRILIAN AS A FX INSERT
    Then we’re gonna open Trilian and load a “Multi” with several articulations routed to the different “Parts” of the “Multi”
    INSERT SCREENSHOTS OF THE MULTI PRESET LOADING, MULTI MIXER AND SOUNDSOURCES
    NB 1 : Notice that you choose different types of Soundsources in terms of how much samples you get for one type of sound. Depending on your CPU power and project needs, you might wanna load the “light” version of a, say, “SlideUpDown” Soundsource, but load the “Full” (maximum samples available) version of a “FullRange” Soundsource.
    NB 2 : In Reaper you should have the LIVE mode ON by default (DOUBLE CHECK THAT)
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF LIVE MODE ON
    When all the samples are loaded, press play and listen.
    Notice how all the regular notes sound fine, but the legato slide doesn’t sound quite right. It sounds quite weird actually, because basically we’re telling Trilian to play a regular note sample and apply some weird pitch variations to it, which is not exactly how a legato slide is.
    If we want to do this the right way, we have to tell Trilian to trigger a legato slide sample for that same note.
    Also, if you look into the Multi mixer while playing back, you can see that all the notes, including the legato slide, are routed to the part 1 whose Soundsource is a “FullRange”, which means it triggers regular notes samples, and not specific articulations.
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF MULTI MIXER WITH PART 1 BEING PLAYED
    This is FAIL since what we wanna do is route the legato slide notes to the Patch that has the “slide up” (which is the appropriate Soundsource for our legato slide since it goes from a fret to a closeby upper fret (and not a total neck slide)) Soundsource loaded, namely Patch # XX in our example.

    STEP 3 : SETTING THE “MULTI” UP IN TRILIAN (BASS VSTi ) TO GET IT TO WORK PROPERLY WITH OUR SPECIFIC ARTICULATIONS :
    - Now back to Trilian, the first thing we do is go to the “Multi” and reach the Live Mode/Stack Mode view to turn the Live Mode/Stack Mode OFF.
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF REACHING THE MULTI
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF TURNING THE LIVE MODE OFF
    Indeed, the Live Mode/Stack Mode are not meant to work with a MIDI track but with somebody playing a MIDI controller (or keyboard) live, so it interferes with our MIDI channel routing, and we don’t need it anyway.

    -Now we’re gonna assign the MIDI channels properly in the “Multi” mixer
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF MULTI MIXER MIDI CHANNELS ASSIGNMENT
    If you remember well, on our MIDI bass track in Reaper we have one MIDI channel for the regular notes, and another MIDI channel for the legato slide notes.
    We’re gonna set the “regular notes” MIDI channel as the MIDI channel input of the part that carries the “FullRange” soundsource (and be sure that no other part has that same MIDI channel for input), and set the “legato slide notes” MIDI channel as the MIDI channel input of the part that carries the “SlideUp” soundsource (and be sure that no other part has that same MIDI channel for input)
    INSERT SCREENSHOT OF REARRANGED MULTI MIXER MIDI CHANNELS ASSIGNMENT
    NB : You should notice that by default the “Parts” volume outputs differ from one track to another, which makes sense since specific articulations are not supposed to sound as loud as regular notes (FullRange), so for instance the Part that carries the SlideUp samples has a lower volume output than the Part that carries the “FullRange” samples.
    NB 2 : Be sure that for each “Part” of your “Multi”, the settings (FIND THE RIGHT TRILIAN WORD) are all the same (using the “Global” editing is the way to go) so that only the Soundsource/volume output/MIDI channel input differ from one part to another. Also be sure that that for each “Part” of your “Multi”, the settings (FIND THE RIGHT TRILIAN WORD) feature the Octave on 0 (and not -1 as it is sometimes by default), because Octave on -1 does not sound right at all.

    STEP 4 : EDITING THE BASS MIDI TRACK IN REAPER (DAW) TO HAVE TRILIAN (BASS VSTi ) GET THE SPECIFIC ARTICULATIONS SOUNDING PROPERLY :

    - ADD DESCRIPTION AND PICS

    STEP 5 : READJUST THE SPECIFIC ARTICULATION SAMPLE SPEED IN TRILIAN TO MAKE IT FIT THE PART PERFECTLY:

    - ADD DESCRIPTION AND PICS
     
  2. colonel_claypoo

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Germany
    thanks for your effort man.
    i'm just a beginner with trilian but this will come in handy for sure when i've got the basics down.
     
  3. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    You're welcome ! I'm gonna finish it this weekend i believe (completing the last sections and adding screenshots mainly).
     
  4. Dexter_prog

    Dexter_prog New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Sir, this is an awesome idea. I'll wait to read it when you have added the clips and screenshots. Thanks A LOT for doing this.
     
  5. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    Glad you appreciate it. I know it's not quite readable right now but i wanted to post it even incomplete to get some feedback on it already before i complete it.

    The final version will have a better layout (i mean spaces between paragraphs and stuff :) ), screenshots and whatnots.
     
  6. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    9,396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Virrat/Helsinki, Finland
  7. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    Ok i'll do that as well i guess.

    The best would be a video but i've never done that so it will be the next step after i complete the text/pics/clips version of it.
     
  8. ahjteam

    ahjteam Anssi Tenhunen

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    9,396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Virrat/Helsinki, Finland
    If you use mac, open quicktime player, go to File > New Screenrecording
     
  9. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    I'm a PC user :)

    But i guess there's an easy way to do this also.
     
  10. Ascendant

    Ascendant Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Bump for great justice, I'd like to see more of this.
     
  11. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    Updating this tutorial is on my "things i was supposed to finish ages ago and that i might finish sooner... or later" :)

    I hope i won't be lazy and do it soon.
     
  12. Ascendant

    Ascendant Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Alright cool, looking forward to it. :)
     
  13. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    Hi guys, i just wanted to let you know that i'm currently going through this whole thing once again for one of my projects, taking tons of screenshots and stuff, so expect a major update for this tutorial someday soon.

    Also, now i understand this thing way better than when i started this tutorial a couple of months ago, so i'm gonna not only add screenshots but also update the content itself with more accurate info.

    Sorry for being late on this.
     
  14. colonel_claypoo

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Germany
    thanks, much appreciated.
    could become a sticky?
     
  15. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    i'll ask the forum admin once the tutorial is complete
     
  16. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    bump

    any news on this?
     
  17. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    yeah, i'm having a short holiday far from my guitar this week so i'm planning on finishing this and uploading it by the end of this week
     
  18. colonel_claypoo

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Germany
    cool, kudos!
     
  19. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
  20. Djabthrash

    Djabthrash Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Paris / Montpellier, FRANCE
    Fuck i failed to deliver so far ...

    It's still on my to do list, and i have crossed some items off it recently, but also added some others :(

    I won't give any deadline this time, but this is definitely something i want to complete since i'd use it for myself among others.
     

Share This Page